Sign in to follow this  
Don Noon

Don Noon's bench

Recommended Posts

I played both in person. The viola sounded superb to me. 

I couldn't quite get a good impression on the violin at the time because the room was an utter cacophony of people trying to outplay one another. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Since returning from VSA, I have been on a binge of deferred R&D, which I couldn't do while trying to get VSA instruments done.

The focus is on how to balance the low-frequency power, i.e. A0, B1-, and B1+, primarily the amplitudes, and secondarily the frequencies.  I have torn into my stockpile of older instruments that for one reason or another I haven't sold (or won't), and currently working on the 7th regrad in the last 3 weeks.

One of the first ones under the knife was the Snakefiddle, which I covered in a separate thread.  I don't think that was as successful as some others, due to the fact that the plates were already very light AND the mode frequencies were abnormally low.  The regrad of my violin #1 was similar... a bit better in some respects, but not earthshaking.

More successful are ones that play stiff and have higher mode frequencies, where there is more room to remove wood.  I have also been finding better results with these by using a relatively heavy bass bar with the mass more concentrated in the middle.  This is the result for violin #15:

412099272_15regrad2018.jpg.de5cabe5c26510515e32e5f9ca3ba401.jpg

This may or may not be a desirable change for a soloist violin, but for a fiddle (the intent, as it's for me) the stronger low end is a significant improvement.  The reduced dropout around 1500 Hz I think also improves the smoothness on the E string.

On the theory side of what's going on here, the ~3 dB increase in low-end power is not something that can be gotten with increased radiating efficiency, but has to be from lower impedance at the bass foot of the bridge, which in turn must be from more movement of the bass bar.  To that end, the regrad primarily removed wood from around the bass bar, and some from above the bass F hole.  The bass bar was more thinned out at the ends as well.  This isn't much of an option if the plates are too thin to start with.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks for sharing your results Don.  I'm a little confused here (not a new phenomena).  You're thinning the plate around the bass bar and then putting in a heavier bass bar.  Do these two changes counteract each other to some degree?   I guess I don't understand how a heavier (stiffer?) bass bar equates to more movement of the bass bar.  

-Jim

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Don Noon said:

 

412099272_15regrad2018.jpg.de5cabe5c26510515e32e5f9ca3ba401.jpg

removed wood   [  ]  from above the bass F hole.  

B1+ Wolf ( if it was existing at all ) now reduced ? 

An interesting thing i.m.o. could be

before :   continous drop-down after 3KHz (singers formant )

after : new "formant" in the 4,5 - 5 kHz region, now interrupting the earlier continous drop-down ( eventually reducing fullness of e-string sound-colour but giving a new "sizzle" ? ) 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Danube Fiddler said:

B1+ Wolf ( if it was existing at all ) now reduced ? 

None of the regrads had an unplayable wolf, just loud and near-wolf on some of them.  The one charted (15) wasn't bad to start with in that respect, it just seemed a bit stiff and lacking on the low end.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Don Noon said:

None of the regrads had an unplayable wolf, just loud and near-wolf on some of them.  The one charted (15) wasn't bad to start with in that respect, it just seemed a bit stiff and lacking on the low end.

B.t.w. :  Some weeks ago one could see a film about Zimmerman/Inchiquin/Schleske ( " Die Seele der Geige " ) - Schleske made a regrad in one of his violins. It seems to be allowed. However one should stop before the violin begins to sound too " harmless " ( as Schleske told to his apprentice and probably also did ).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

From a different thread, but appropriate:

On 1/3/2019 at 6:04 AM, martin swan said:

The only thing we can't fight against is the slow creep of time ...

Yup, the time crept up on me, and the push over the last several months to get instruments done for VSA gave more evidence that I can't do the carving and scraping in the traditional manual way, at any kind of reasonable pace (multiple fractures, sprains, arthritis, carpal tunnel surgery on both wrists, primarily the result of decades of competitive volleyball).

I have seen this day coming, so almost a year ago I bought this machine, big enough for violas, with a 2.2kW water-cooled spindle, and I had 240V power wired into the shop to run it.  Over the last month, I have been suffering through the pangs of learning a new solid modelling software package, and starting the layout of my new designs and tooling.  There will be another pang or two coming up, with the CAM package to learn, and then getting the whole thing debugged to make parts.

So there.  Now I'm out of the closet, and gone over to the dark side.  But I do believe this will (eventually) help build more and better instruments, unless you think that human errors are valuable aesthetics.  Since the final finishing will still be by hand, I'll probably have some defects anyway... just not as many and not as big.

IMG_1861.jpg.7df821e8e016006baf71e1a8d5450391.jpg

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 1/4/2019 at 11:20 AM, Don Noon said:

From a different thread, but appropriate:

Yup, the time crept up on me, and the push over the last several months to get instruments done for VSA gave more evidence that I can't do the carving and scraping in the traditional manual way, at any kind of reasonable pace (multiple fractures, sprains, arthritis, carpal tunnel surgery on both wrists, primarily the result of decades of competitive volleyball).

I have seen this day coming, so almost a year ago I bought this machine, big enough for violas, with a 2.2kW water-cooled spindle, and I had 240V power wired into the shop to run it.  Over the last month, I have been suffering through the pangs of learning a new solid modelling software package, and starting the layout of my new designs and tooling.  There will be another pang or two coming up, with the CAM package to learn, and then getting the whole thing debugged to make parts.

So there.  Now I'm out of the closet, and gone over to the dark side.  But I do believe this will (eventually) help build more and better instruments, unless you think that human errors are valuable aesthetics.  Since the final finishing will still be by hand, I'll probably have some defects anyway... just not as many and not as big.

IMG_1861.jpg.7df821e8e016006baf71e1a8d5450391.jpg

 

 

Don't feel bad, Don. That's just the modern equivalent of having half-a-dozen apprentices living under your roof and doing the grunt work while you the master put in the fine and finishing touches.  :) 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 1/4/2019 at 10:20 AM, Don Noon said:

From a different thread, but appropriate:

Yup, the time crept up on me, and the push over the last several months to get instruments done for VSA gave more evidence that I can't do the carving and scraping in the traditional manual way, at any kind of reasonable pace (multiple fractures, sprains, arthritis, carpal tunnel surgery on both wrists, primarily the result of decades of competitive volleyball).

I have seen this day coming, so almost a year ago I bought this machine, big enough for violas, with a 2.2kW water-cooled spindle, and I had 240V power wired into the shop to run it.  Over the last month, I have been suffering through the pangs of learning a new solid modelling software package, and starting the layout of my new designs and tooling.  There will be another pang or two coming up, with the CAM package to learn, and then getting the whole thing debugged to make parts.

So there.  Now I'm out of the closet, and gone over to the dark side.  But I do believe this will (eventually) help build more and better instruments, unless you think that human errors are valuable aesthetics.  Since the final finishing will still be by hand, I'll probably have some defects anyway... just not as many and not as big.

IMG_1861.jpg.7df821e8e016006baf71e1a8d5450391.jpg

 

 

Nice Don look almost like the one I have. Looks like yours need limit switches added, I had to add them to mine, you're gifted so you'll have it running !

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, Dominik Tomasek said:

I am sorry to go OOT, but what is the piece played on that tremendously sounding viola called? 

Thank you in advance!

It's the Adagio from the first Sonata of the Sonatas and Partitas for violin by Bach.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 hours ago, carl1961 said:

Nice Don look almost like the one I have. Looks like yours need limit switches added, I had to add them to mine, you're gifted so you'll have it running !

It came with the limit switches wired into the harness.  Amazingly repeatable.

7 hours ago, thirteenthsteph said:

It's the Adagio from the first Sonata of the Sonatas and Partitas for violin by Bach.

Thanks.  As a not-classical expert, I am saved from having to bug Annelle about the name of the piece.  I knew it was something famous, though.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Every once in a while I'll snoop around on Youtube and see what my work is being used for.  This is the viola I made 2+ years ago, in capable young hands.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, Don Noon said:

Every once in a while I'll snoop around on Youtube and see what my work is being used for.  This is the viola I made 2+ years ago, in capable young hands.

Here we see the work of capable hands all around - yours and theirs!  :) 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The CAM package of Fusion360 I have heard people say is one of the best, and maybe it is... I was surprised how easy and intuitive it was.  As a result, I got into actually drilling and cutting stuff more quickly than I expected.  This is the first group of parts:  the beginnings of a collapsible form.  I used some of my crappier plywood, just in case something went wrong, with the intent to use the better material if it worked.  However, this is my "small" model design, which will probably get the least use, so I might just use it as-is... assuming I don't discover something fatally wrong with it when I actually get it together.

956237782_CNC190126.jpg.ca3ad192e00e0a0fb3119215414c23cb.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Don Noon said:

The CAM package of Fusion360 I have heard people say is one of the best, and maybe it is... I was surprised how easy and intuitive it was. 

nice work Don. I agree Fusion is a fab programme and it is free. I worked with the team when I was at Autodesk on the cloud rendering prototype. I do all my drawings and templates in Fusion.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
Sign in to follow this  

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.