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Don Noon

Don Noon's bench

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13 hours ago, Dave.Writer said:

Hey, so I’m the very fortunate owner of #25 - indeed, it’s as beautiful as Don has it pictured, and the sound is magnificent. If you’d like more hi-res pics, I’m happy to oblige - just tell me what you’re looking for exactly. 

And yes, congrats Don! Though frankly I’m not surprised...

 

Hi Dave, 

it is a great honour for me, to get your first posting !

Congratulation to your acquisition ! I admire very much Dons work and his skills.  I wish you much pleasure while playing your new violin ! 

My interest in wood was a little bit funny - however I am generally interested in the narrowness of maple-year-rings and the winter-proportion of rings in spruce. If you have a pic of a little area, showing this, I would be happy. But I don´t know, if Don allows it.....

 

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1 hour ago, Danube Fiddler said:

My interest in wood was a little bit funny - however I am generally interested in the narrowness of maple-year-rings and the winter-proportion of rings in spruce. If you have a pic of a little area, showing this, I would be happy. But I don´t know, if Don allows it.....

I have a photo of the spruce (different instrument, but same log) showing ~1mm grain spacing and fairly narrow winter growth.  Very nice looking spruce.  I do try to avoid wide winter growth, but otherwise I don't think you can map visual cues to how it will sound.

The maple (shown from the inside of #25) is wide grain, wild, curved, and off-quarter by a fair amount. The weight was a little high and taptone a little low,  but to me, the evidence is that it's not all that critical to tonal results. 

574809317_TSspruce.jpg.9bd757bb06c3d8660a0c46c14d11a426.jpg1321283836_25inside.jpg.63440fa06c4c16a09e78c7b240cab34b.jpg

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1 hour ago, Don Noon said:

I have a photo of the spruce (different instrument, but same log) showing ~1mm grain spacing and fairly narrow winter growth.  Very nice looking spruce.  I do try to avoid wide winter growth, but otherwise I don't think you can map visual cues to how it will sound.

The maple (shown from the inside of #25) is wide grain, wild, curved, and off-quarter by a fair amount. The weight was a little high and taptone a little low,  but to me, the evidence is that it's not all that critical to tonal results. 

574809317_TSspruce.jpg.9bd757bb06c3d8660a0c46c14d11a426.jpg1321283836_25inside.jpg.63440fa06c4c16a09e78c7b240cab34b.jpg

Thanks, Don !

The spruce looks really great !  May be the winter-growth is not of importance, but the most great classical violins have this narrow winter-growth and I also like it optically.  The maple - rings are a little bit wide for my personal taste at the moment, but I love its wildness and the slight growth-direction-change in the lower bout. It gives a very individual expression. 

Would you reveal, which are your normal final-weights of backs in average ? Mine have been ~ 115g until now - but I think about going lower the next time.

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2 hours ago, Danube Fiddler said:

Would you reveal, which are your normal final-weights of backs in average ? Mine have been ~ 115g until now - but I think about going lower the next time.

114 is the heaviest I have made (in a non-torrefied violin).  It was fine.

This one was 107g, M5=340 Hz.  The other tone award winner (#21) was 93.3g, M5=362 (same model).

These kinds of numbers I think are good indicators that the numbers aren't very important for a good result, and why I don't "tune" anything.  I just have a general target zone of 100g and 360 Hz, and go heavy/low (this violin) or light/high (#21) if the wood wants to go elsewhere.  Non-torrefied wood probably wants to be heavier.

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13 minutes ago, Don Noon said:

114 is the heaviest I have made (in a non-torrefied violin).  It was fine.

This one was 107g, M5=340 Hz.  The other tone award winner (#21) was 93.3g, M5=362 (same model).

These kinds of numbers I think are good indicators that the numbers aren't very important for a good result, and why I don't "tune" anything.  I just have a general target zone of 100g and 360 Hz, and go heavy/low (this violin) or light/high (#21) if the wood wants to go elsewhere.

These data of your backs show definitely very different wood-properties, while apparently you achieved quite similar stiffness-numbers at least in M5 - relevance. The sound-results seem to be both excellent - but what is about sound-colour ? Which one of these both violins sounds brighter, which one darker or deeper ?

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5 hours ago, Danube Fiddler said:

The sound-results seem to be both excellent - but what is about sound-colour ? Which one of these both violins sounds brighter, which one darker or deeper ?

You decide...

25

21

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14 hours ago, Don Noon said:

You decide...

25

21

I can´t hear a big general difference in dark vs. bright, while it is a little bit more difficult to compare in different music. However in contrast to the given back-data rather the Nr. 25 could be the slightly brighter sounding instrument. There seem to be some more overtones of the Nr. 25 in the higher registers - interesting !    It is a nice thing, to have such sound-reports played by a very fine player like Annelle ! 

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Wow, Don. Congratulations. It's been fun to watch you get better and better. I would ask what you're putting in the spruce to make it look lit from within, but you'd better not tell anyone. Looks good though. Good luck with the VSA competition going your way, or at least into the 3rd round of judging. 

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On 10/1/2018 at 5:25 AM, Andreas Preuss said:

Can't wait to see it with color varnish. 

Here it is (VSA violin, in process) with color varnish applied.  Photo was with daylight LED; I tried adjusting the color, but still didn't get it to show as red/orange as it really looks.  I'm happy with the result, which so far has never been the case with varnish.  Not terribly complicated:  terpene/solvent sealer, clear(ish) cooked rosin varnish over that, and color varnish of iron rosinate, toned down with FF rosin varnish and some Gilsonite.  Of course, the torrefied wood matters a lot, I think.  After VSA, I'll post full photos.  By the way, the bright and dark areas switch completely depending on viewing angle.

257761670_271810172.thumb.jpg.2204bcb188a5c2d6979118d64de0a12b.jpg

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21 minutes ago, Don Noon said:

Here it is (VSA violin, in process) with color varnish applied.  Photo was with daylight LED; I tried adjusting the color, but still didn't get it to show as red/orange as it really looks.  I'm happy with the result, which so far has never been the case with varnish.  Not terribly complicated:  terpene/solvent sealer, clear(ish) cooked rosin varnish over that, and color varnish of iron rosinate, toned down with FF rosin varnish and some Gilsonite.  Of course, the torrefied wood matters a lot, I think.  After VSA, I'll post full photos.  By the way, the bright and dark areas switch completely depending on viewing angle.

257761670_271810172.thumb.jpg.2204bcb188a5c2d6979118d64de0a12b.jpg

Looks good - like mine. We need to compare at the VSA.

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Looks GREAT!! and I am sure much better in person.  Will be looking forward to seeing and and you at VSA, was sad I was not able to make it to Arizona, missed you guys.  Your varnish sounds very similar to what I use.  Think simple is better and the beauty comes with the application layers as it develops.

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On 11/9/2018 at 9:01 AM, Michael_Molnar said:

Congratulation, Don, on winning a Certificate of Merit for Viola Tone at the Cleveland VSA. B)

On 11/9/2018 at 4:29 PM, Andreas Preuss said:

Congrats to be in the winners section for viola sound. Well done!

What size and model did you make? 

Thanx, guys.  It was very unexpected, as the viola did not crush the other violas in first round tone at VMAAI.  Interestingly, at VSA, there were no tone awards for viola any higher than the certificate of merit.

It is a frankenviola, an experimental mix of daSalo, Cannone, and my own arching.  400 mm.  I'll get around to taking decent photos soon.

 

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7 hours ago, Don Noon said:

Thanx, guys.  It was very unexpected, as the viola did not crush the other violas in first round tone at VMAAI. 

May be the tonal evaluations have been quite different. Can you report, how the procedures have been ? 

- player evaluations and/or listener evaluations ? / how many players did play each instrument ?

- room acoustics ( tests in different halls ? )

My suspicion is, that in violinmaking  - competitions the soundtest-designs often could be somewhat poor because of costs for several testing professional players and hall rentals. 

7 hours ago, Don Noon said:

Interestingly, at VSA, there were no tone awards for viola any higher than the certificate of merit.

May be at VSA they didn´t have a good "viola-hall" for testing - there are some halls, in which certain stringed instrument-types just don´t sound so fine than in other halls or than normally. Then it is very hard to have success in such a hall. 

Anyways - congrats to your success ! 

 

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My VSA violin entry.  It took me a while to get the photos and videos together.  The viola will be in my next post.

1122823416_271811151.thumb.JPG.6f86b8326b8633716a936f41a538a4d9.JPG621936238_271811152.thumb.JPG.204266297d1bed5915c496d07371d5b6.JPG514435199_271811154.thumb.JPG.fa7d54ab55cafc444e195c48d88302e8.JPG2129160549_271811159.JPG.5e4cbd0f728891ab607c8454df06e840.JPG

 

 

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The only real thought was to get the A0 closer to C, to give the open C string some support, by using large, long F-holes.  The rest is total randomness suggested by the thickness of wood that I started with.  As it is my 4th viola, I'm just guessing at things.

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