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deja-vu


jacobsaunders
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For all of the many E. H. Rothologists

http://www.ebay.com/itm/330942339799

 

(The first installment here)

http://www.maestronet.com/forum/index.php?/topic/327207-pahdahs-roth/

  

BTW. Markneukirchen 1951 would actually be a feasible date for a Markneukirchen Roth violin, since it was in that year that the firm in Markneukirchen was nationalised/confiscated. The re-founded firm was opened in 1953 in the newly-built (1949) Bubenreuther “Geigenbauersiedlung”

 

http://www.spiegel.de/spiegel/print/d-44437259.html

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“Antique” is one of those terms that gets thrown about, but that actually has legal meaning.

 

The U.S. Tariff act of 1930 states that an object must be 100 years or older to be an antique.  

 

Ebay seems to follow this: Definitions

 

However, individual states may also have definitions that differ from the Tariff Act of 1930.  For example:

 

"NRS 647.012 “Antique” defined. “Antique” means a unique object of personal property that is not less than 60 years old and has special value primarily because of its age.”  Reference Page

 

But they probably don’t cover interstate commerce.

 

But I agree,

Looks like a very nice student fiddle.

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“Antique” is one of those terms that gets thrown about, but that actually has legal meaning.

 

The U.S. Tariff act of 1930 states that an object must be 100 years or older to be an antique.  

 

Ebay seems to follow this: Definitions

 

However, individual states may also have definitions that differ from the Tariff Act of 1930.  For example:

 

 

But they probably don’t cover interstate commerce.

 

But I agree,

Speaking anecdotally, there is a common misconception (even among antique dealers) that the 25 years accepted for "antique" cars applies to everything.  I feel that for violins we should stick to the 100 year rule, apply "vintage" to 25-99 years, and "used" to anything younger that's been previously sold,, but that's just my opinion :) .

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Since the ad also appears in ebay.uk and ebay.at (probably other countries too), the World Customs Organization (WCO) definition of "antique" applies.  An object less than one hundred years old can not be considered "antique."  Harmonized Tariff Schedule (HTS) 9706.00.0060.  US Code of Federal Regulations, Title 19, Section 10.53 also applies.

 

Between the these two instances of Roths, their "archives" raise even more questions than answers.

 

If the XI-R fiddles were "made to order," how come this series is exactly one shy of a Dutzen?  Why do the dates in the book seem backfilled?  Do the dates on the labels, brands, etc. on the Roths have any significance?  What are we supposed to make of all these anachronisms?

 

post-1604-0-89960800-1371782782_thumb.jpg

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If the XI-R fiddles were "made to order," how come this series is exactly one shy of a Dutzen?

Perhaps the XI-R was not all that great, or many Dutzen were not all that bad, or the answer lies somewhere in the middle, explained by the obvious fact that much the same people were making them in much the same way? :)

 

Cute pun, BTW :lol:

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Since I believe I introduced the phrase to this Forum, I hope I will be forgiven for pointing out that “Dutzend” has a “d” at the end, and is pronounced more like “Dutzendt”.

 

I can confirm that “Antique” is defined here, in both the Zolltarif and the Einführumsatzsteuergesetz as “over 100 years” too, although I’m told that the folklore version, in certain circles, can be understood as 3 round trips to the pawnbroker.

 

I think it is quite a decent school fiddle too, although whoever “did” the soundpost crack could do with a good flogging.

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Since I believe I introduced the phrase to this Forum, I hope I will be forgiven for pointing out that “Dutend” has a “d” at the end, and is pronounced more like “Dutzendt”.
 

Oops.  Looks like we created our very own linguistic corruption in realtime .  Vielen dank, Jacob :lol:

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Speaking anecdotally, there is a common misconception (even among antique dealers) that the 25 years accepted for "antique" cars applies to everything.  I feel that for violins we should stick to the 100 year rule, apply "vintage" to 25-99 years, and "used" to anything younger that's been previously sold,, but that's just my opinion :) .

i agree. I hate going into antique stores and seeing things with a website written on them. :)

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