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darkening the violin wood


Peter White

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Here are some pic's of my latest greatest work's , using bread crumbs from Rodger,and a little of Joe's ground varnish and amber varnish .

 I'm pretty happy with the overall results....I'd enjoy any input anyone has.

How long was it left in the sun?  Any UV in a light box?  Did you UV it and then put on your tea?

 

It is certainly a beautiful result,  and I add my congratulations for the workmanship also.

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Thanks all.

John,

 Sun time was small, just while I did the work on the finish ,full sun one day, the first pic is pretty white. No UV box, after the reactive stuff ,I did use some chicory tea with some vanilla extract to add just a bit more color, and to wash the surface of any residue from the reactive solutions.. My test strips all show that at this point,any color varnish will be more effective in thin layers.

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Iron Mike,

Very nice ground.  Back to product vs process.  Your ground reminds me of the Balsam Ground without added color. 

The attached picture is Balsam Ground [no added color] plus UV....mild bulbs [15W black lights] 10 hrs per day for 2 weeks.

 

Don,

I can agree about UV reaction being on the 'darkening" side.  When I look at the difference in a piece of wood after UV I see some color change and a diminished contrast in the natural color of the wood.

 

Star Mike,

The thing with UV is that it is inevitable.  Unless the instrument is born and lives in the dark, these changes will occur.  Allowing them to happen before you varnish gives a more realistic picture of where you are going with color.  Lately I have been trying UV after the first 4 steps of the Balsam Ground.  I like the effects.

 

on we go,

Joe

 

 

post-6284-0-00392300-1373763803_thumb.jpg

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Iron Mike,

Very nice ground.  Back to product vs process.  Your ground reminds me of the Balsam Ground without added color. 

The attached picture is Balsam Ground [no added color] plus UV....mild bulbs [15W black lights] 10 hrs per day for 2 weeks.

 

Don,

I can agree about UV reaction being on the 'darkening" side.  When I look at the difference in a piece of wood after UV I see some color change and a diminished contrast in the natural color of the wood.

 

Star Mike,

The thing with UV is that it is inevitable.  Unless the instrument is born and lives in the dark, these changes will occur.  Allowing them to happen before you varnish gives a more realistic picture of where you are going with color.  Lately I have been trying UV after the first 4 steps of the Balsam Ground.  I like the effects.

 

on we go,

Joe

If people like darker wood, why don't they just use cherry?

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In the Strad Varnish book what evidence do they show that a stain was used?  Certain chemicals detected?  Or UV analysis?  or what?  

Or has that already been posted here and I missed it?

 

Oops looking back and found post #12.   Potassium,  Chlorine and Phosphorus.  Can anyone who has the book add any info to that for those of us who don't have the book? 

 

Didn't I read somewhere that Boron was found also ? 

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Didn't I read somewhere that Boron was found also ? 

Maybe here in the paper by Dr. Nagyvary.

 

Mineral Preservatives in the Wood of Stradivari and Guarneri

 

"Boron was detected semi-quantitatively using WDS spectral scans centered on the boron K alpha X-ray emission line and carried out under identical conditions on the pressed powder pellets."

 

"Noteworthy is the presence of boron, an element normally not found in wood, which can be easily overlooked because of its low energy X-ray emission line which must be detected using a WDS spectrometer equipped with a special large d-spacing pseudocrystal."

 

"Particular care was taken to search for borate in all samples because of its role as an insecticide-fungicide of long-standing usage. Boron was found in both instruments of Stradivari and the early period Guarneri; it was absent in the late Guarneri and in all the commercial maple samples. The amount of borate in the Gand-Bernardel and perhaps in the Henry Jay was slightly beyond its natural abundance in wood. This is apparent in Fig. 4 which shows WDS spectral scans over the boron peak on the Stradivari violin, early Guarneri violin, Gand-Bernardel violin, Henry Jay viola, and recent commercial Bosnian maple ash pellets."

 

"Figure 4. The detection of boron.

WDS spectral scans over the boron peak are shown on the ash pellets of the Stradivari violin (blue), early Guarneri violin (green), Gand-Bernardel violin (red), Henry Jay viola (orange) and commercial Bosnian maple (black)."

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The balsam ground needs to be applied to bare wood.  I do recommend an application of alcohol to the spruce...just for safety sake.

Actually the Balsam #1 will also insure an even application.  Best advice is to be conservative in application until you are familiar with the materials...knowing every instrument will be a bit different.

Joe

OK...I sent you an order on the website form. Please let me know if you have everything in stock. The AW gold is looking good when mixed into the #2 balsam. I can continue adding it into the #3 as well? At a 1:1 ratio?...AWG to #3 balsam, then thin with an equal amount of turp?

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Thanks NewNewbie   but that link seems to be broken.   Interesting information though,  some puzzle pieces seem to be falling into place don't you think? 

 

 

http://www.plosone.org/article/info:doi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0004245

 

www.plosone.org/article/info:doi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0004245

 

You can alos search the title "Mineral Preservatives in the Wood of Stradivari and Guarneri"

Dr. Nagyvary

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OK...I sent you an order on the website form. Please let me know if you have everything in stock. The AW gold is looking good when mixed into the #2 balsam. I can continue adding it into the #3 as well? At a 1:1 ratio?...AWG to #3 balsam, then thin with an equal amount of turp?

Ernie,

Yes to all.  Glad it is working for you.  The return per coat on the AW Gold is highest with the #2 Balsam.  So if you want to punch up the color give it another coat of #2 + AW Gold.

Pictures to share?

Joe

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This is what cherry looks like.

 

Oded

 

Is this some US cherry wood? It looks great, but European cherry has a nasty reputation for cracking. The old guys used to leave it for several years to let it crack and then cut out the bits between the cracks. This is why big thick pieces are seldom found on furnature. It was mostly used as veneers.

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Hi Marty,

Do you start varnishing on a completely "white" instrument?

Joe

I think a clear oil based finish on figured cherry looks natural.  Colored

 

This is what cherry looks like.

 

Oded

I like it very much. 

 

Was this done with a simple clear varnish or were there UV lamp/sun exposures, fillers, grounds, chemical treatments, stains or dyes coloring steps, colored varnish etc. used?

 

Marty

 

Marty

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Ernie,

Yes to all.  Glad it is working for you.  The return per coat on the AW Gold is highest with the #2 Balsam.  So if you want to punch up the color give it another coat of #2 + AW Gold.

Pictures to share?

Joe

Here is the AW Gold and #2 balsam on a test strip and another white test strip. I applied four coats yesterday and let dry overnight. Another three coats this morning but after the sixth coat it seems sealed and started to lie on top. I wiped off the excess and put a final seventh coat on and here is the result. Definite natural looking color  but nowhere near the color of your photos yet and still too light IMO.

Four Coats/inside lighting

 

Seven Coats/outside full sun

 

It's fun to watch the color turn from lemon yellow to a tan color. It happens in less than 5 minute in the hot July sun we are having this week.

 

The Oldwood ground should be here this week and I will post side by side comparison photo's of the final result.

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Here is the AW Gold and #2 balsam on a test strip and another white test strip. I applied four coats yesterday and let dry overnight. Another three coats this morning but after the sixth coat it seems sealed and started to lie on top. I wiped off the excess and put a final seventh coat on and here is the result. Definite natural looking color  but nowhere near the color of your photos yet and still too light IMO.

Four Coats/inside lighting

attachicon.gif001.JPG

 

Seven Coats/outside full sun

attachicon.gif005.JPG

 

It's fun to watch the color turn from lemon yellow to a tan color. It happens in less than 5 minute in the hot July sun we are having this week.

attachicon.gif002.JPG

 

The Oldwood ground should be here this week and I will post side by side comparison photo's of the final result.

Ernie,

Number of coats...it takes some experimentation to find out how much ofthe AW Gold you can use before it scares you to death...but it always fades to "normal"!

Keep us posted.

Joe

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