Peter KG's Bench

[Patrick KREIT]

The surface of this old violin had already been treated, making a more thorough sanding necessary. The white spots will disappear under the varnish.

 

www.kreitpatrick.com

[Michael_Molnar]

Peter,

 

I think the back looks almost "burned" in the curls. That is there is too much dark material in the curly figure which will mask other optical effects that you want. Do not darken it anymore. 

 

Nevertheless, this looks like an "old" instrument. You are on the right track.

 

Looking forward to your next report.

[Peter K-G]

I tested my newly cooked varnish on some wood sample (nothing to show yet). The varnish is quite thick, like syrup, so i diluted it with pine turpentine ~40% (the same as cooked into the varnish). I rubbed the diluted varnish with my fingers and it was very "oily" and easy to spread out.

I really love the forrest fresh smell of the varnish. It smells so good that I almost want to taste it. The varnish has a beautiful transparent goldenbrown/reddish color when it's on the bottom of a glass jar. I wonder, can it really be this easy to make violin varnish?

The sample in post #46 was directly after the cooking, still warm and not diluted. That layer is quite thick and still very sticky. I have had the sample in my workshop without sunlight.

Hope the varnish will dry properly, then I will try it on my ongoing project.

[Peter K-G]

And thanks, Michael. I will be posting along the way

[Peter K-G]

First thin layer of varnish, rubbed on with my fingers/hand. I now understand violin varnishing in a completely new way!

 

 

 

 

 

I must say I'm a little stunned myself. And not much effort

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Peter K-G]

I use to let my family influence the color/darkness when I varnish violins. They always keep saying... more colors, make it darker and usually they want more red. This morning when I took the violin from the UV box, after a second coat of clear varnish, I gave it to my wife. She turned it for a long time in different lights and looked amazed.

 

The comment she gave was, maybe you shouldn't put any pigments at all!

 

 

The pictures doesn't show (should take a movie clip) how holographic it is, I'm really happy

[Peter K-G]

It's going to be a tough challenge to apply pigmented varnish! I'm used to Oldwood varnish with wich you can play around a long time. The working time is much shorter for my own varnish, it's seconds before it gets tacky

 

This is the best I could achieve today. (Underneath is brescia brown varnish, not my own)

 

I kind of gently "patted" (don't know if it is the right word) the tacky/sticky varnish with fingers together, leaving the surface frosty. This way I was able to get an even distribution of the pigmented varnish. After drying a couple of hours in UV box I put on a coat of my own clear varnish. Need to practice more!

 

 

The pigment is walnut brown from oldwood. I haven't recieved my pigments order from Kremer yet;

 

Madder Lake made of roots, dark red

Burnt Umber Light reddish-brown

Van Dyck Brown

[Carl Stross]

I use to let my family influence the color/darkness when I varnish violins. They always keep saying... more colors, make it darker and usually they want more red. This morning when I took the violin from the UV box, after a second coat of clear varnish, I gave it to my wife. She turned it for a long time in different lights and looked amazed.

 

The comment she gave was, maybe you shouldn't put any pigments at all!

 

2013-08-16 07.56.26.jpg 2013-08-16 07.57.14.jpg

 

The pictures doesn't show (should take a movie clip) how holographic it is, I'm really happy

 

 

I think it looks stunning.

[Peter K-G]

I think it looks stunning.

 

Thanks Carl,

 

Although I don't want to take all the credit for this. I didn't actually do much, I just followed a recipe and descriptions and it just happened. The whole process has taken about 1 hour effective working time including the glue sizing.

[Peter K-G]

Business trip to Stockholm. I found a violin shop selling imported cheap student fiddles, poor students!

Anyway I came over some nice tonewood, that had been lying on the shelf for some times, almost for free.

 

 

Tomorrow I have plans to put a layer of pigmented varnish on my ongoing project.

 

[Peter K-G]

First attempt to glaze with pigments and my varnish as a medium failed. I had to "wash" it off with turpentine. I got the color I wanted but my varnish dries too fast leaving too little working time. It looked like a child had messed with it I applied a clear coat of varnish and put the violin in UV box. The back needs a little sanding.

[Peter K-G]

Refering to post in Stradivari Tool (Square): http://www.maestronet.com/forum/index.php?/topic/328943-stradivari-tool-square/page-4#entry595086

 

I just received my new tools in a nice package from Dictum

 

 

These are getting retired

 

 

My caliper stays

 

 

 

[Peter K-G]

YEES!

 

Got the glazing right this time. Thanks Patrick

 

Madder is such a beautiful color, I'll post some pictures later. I have used both pigments (not fully mulled, to get the shimmering effect I was looking for) and tube color artist grade, mixed with a very little amount of burned sienna tube color.

 

Now I will let it dry for 3 days and put a layer of clear varnish and see if another glazing is necassery or not, don't want to overdo the coloring.

[Peter K-G]

Gray sky today

 

 

 

 

 

one more light glazing coat and then I think I will finalize with a couple of coats with clear varnish.

[Peter K-G]

Could not wait 3 days. I just put on a coat of clear varnish and found a little evening sun to take some pictures. The glaze/pigment is floating over the surface and disappears and reappears when turning the violin in the sun light. I did not know a violin can be this beautiful  I wish I had a better camera.

 

 

 

I'm going to put on one more coat (Sunday) and then this one is ready.

It takes 10 minutes to put on a coat with my hands and it evens out by itself. It does not need polishing.

[Peter K-G]

I decided not to put on anymore varnish. I like it as it is so why not leave it that way, totally 7 coats of thin varnish layers (two light glazing layers) I know I tend to put on too little varnish but the sound is more important.

I had a challenge with the fingerboard to get the frequency down (450 Hz) to get the final B0 (284Hz) I wanted it to be under 280.

The fingerboard ended up 59 g. total weight is now 370 g, will be around 375 g when it has absorbed moister. Total weight of varnish is likely to be around 7-8 g.

This violin will have deep & powerful sound (knocking on the fingerboard). To the ear it will sound darker than violin #5 but not at distance. A0 and B0 are relatively stronger. I also expect B1- to be stronger or the same as B1+. Very exited but have to waite for the varnish to dry.

[Peter K-G]

The inside sizing seems to work. The violin only absorbs 1g per day.

With fingerboard. MC% not known (guess 4-5%)

371 g

A0=288

A1=474

B0=282

B1-=464

B1+=568

It is not easy to track modes at this stage. I had to put clay on fingerboard end and cotton wool pads in the f-holes. A lot of interfering from the fingerboard (other FB modes also) FB is the loadest so far of all violins i have worked with.

[Peter K-G]

The violin did not absorb more water so I have misscalculated moister content in july (Humidity ~70%) when I tuned the top to 338 Hz and coupling frequency of back on ribs to 278 Hz. The frequencies did not go down so I strung up the violin and tested:

 

A0=287

B0=276

B1-=457

B1+=565

 

My UV box is more powerful than I have understood.

 

I couldn't stand the violin for more than an hour

- Loud and mean but yet surprisely easy to play

-

 

-> Back to the bench:

 

 

Top M5=353, M2=156

[Peter K-G]

I'm searching for the back coupling frequency, can't find it so I will calculate mass to remove.

[Janito]

I couldn't stand the violin for more than an hour

- Loud and mean but yet surprisely easy to play

-

 

-> Back to the bench:

 

Are you sure the 'meanness' is not the set-up?

[Peter K-G]

Are you sure the 'meanness' is not the set-up?

 

Yes, I know exactly what I like and dislike, and this was due to B1- and B1+ too high and over 100 Hz delta:

- The violin lacks a medium register, the G-string becomes raspy and aggressive

- Too high A0 contributes to this

 

I don't even know why I strung up the violin, I knew that it was "distroyed" already. Fortunatly it's fixable.

The problem was that MC% in summer must have been 12-13% (The violin had been stored outside) humidity in air was 70%

I should have followed that instead of my cheap MC% meter.

[Don Noon]

I know exactly what I like and dislike, and this was due to B1- and B1+ too high and over 100 Hz delta:

So obviously you would dislike the Vieuxtemps GdG, as it has B1+ and B1- even higher, and a delta of 122Hz. Some other people seem to think it's OK.

[Peter K-G]

The Ex Vieuxtemps is a very special violin. (B1- 470, B1+ 592 ??)

I think careful setup and adjustment can make a big difference; heavy chinrest and shoulder rest, heavy bow and a skillful player.

I love Il Cannone, that one has B1+ even higher.

 

They are special cases!  If one tries to make a violin with B1+ 592, it will be almost unplayable. One question is, are the readings right?

Heavy and low arched backplate might work with high B1+?

 

Maybe they should be regraduated

[Peter K-G]

The violin did not absorb more water so I have misscalculated moister content in july (Humidity ~70%) when I tuned the top to 338 Hz and coupling frequency of back on ribs to 278 Hz. The frequencies did not go down so I strung up the violin and tested:

 

A0=287

B0=276

B1-=457

B1+=565

 

My UV box is more powerful than I have understood.

 

I couldn't stand the violin for more than an hour

- Loud and mean but yet surprisely easy to play

-

 

-> Back to the bench:

 

LateJakobOpen14092013.jpg

 

Top M5=353, M2=156

 

I have corrected the violin. Humidity in air 45%

 

Top M5=338 Hz, M2=147, removed 2 g of wood mostly in the middle and c-bout edges. bass bar lowered to 10 mm. 67,5 g

 

I'm not sure it is possible to get correct coupling frequency with neck and/or fingerbord.

I found two frequencies that decreased when removing wood in the middle and c-bout edges. I removed 5 g of wood from backplate. Theese frequencies  where also linked to the weight of neck.

 

Before and after correction (without pegs/with pegs)

 

f1  341/334 -> 332/328

f2  314/306 -> 304/297

 

smeared on new coats of casein/lime glue size.

 

Great lesson learned!

[Peter K-G]

Frequencies corrected to right level! total 6-7 g removed, mostly in the central regions of the plates.

 

Unstrung with CR / without CR

 

A0=282

B0=284

A1=475

B1-=448 / 461

B1+=539 / 556

 

It needs to be repeated - without knowing exactly the right MC% tuning is useless.

 

The box sounds like wood again. When the frequncies where at there highest it sounded like composite.

 

I'm going to play my cannon in the evening