CarloBartolini Posted May 20, 2014 Author Report Share Posted May 20, 2014 Mention of Alexander Stradivarius (Antonio's father?) - page 207 Cremona literata vol 1, 1702 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jezzupe Posted May 20, 2014 Report Share Posted May 20, 2014 cool stuff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torbjörn Zethelius Posted May 20, 2014 Report Share Posted May 20, 2014 Translation? Thank you, Carlo, BTW. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Addie Posted May 20, 2014 Report Share Posted May 20, 2014 Very roughly: Alexander STRADIVARIUS in solving a number of songs to supply them, the Greek, the Hebrew, the Persian idiom, and endowed with abundant learning, and more elegant to commonly says The songs varied in book 3. The antiquity of the Lombards, and the other, which suggests Bressianus in V.R. Is he publishing books of translated songs? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarloBartolini Posted June 22, 2014 Author Report Share Posted June 22, 2014 Interesting description of Cremona - from the time of Antonio. Page 539 L'Italia regnante overo Nova Descritione dello stato presente di tutti Principati e Republiche d'Italia. - Geneva, de la Pietra 1675-1676 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piergiuseppe Posted June 22, 2014 Report Share Posted June 22, 2014 I do not know if it's already been mentioned: http://smurl.ws/8j9o5n Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarloBartolini Posted November 8, 2014 Author Report Share Posted November 8, 2014 This may be interesting to someone: Vocabolario Cremonese Italiano - 1847 Viouleen - page 666 Coperchio del viouleen - page 482 Mànoch del viouleen - page 332 Cartella - page 114 Scagnell -page 525 Canteen - page 100 Bècch - page 43 Invernisaa - page 293 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piergiuseppe Posted November 8, 2014 Report Share Posted November 8, 2014 Peri - really a good text. I have a copy and it is - the basis of the dialect cremonerse. This too can be interesting: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarloBartolini Posted December 21, 2014 Author Report Share Posted December 21, 2014 Not so old, but may be interesting to some - 1873 - page 47 istrumenti Musicali. Relazioni dei Giurati italiani sulla Esposizione universale di Vienna del 1873 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael_Molnar Posted December 21, 2014 Report Share Posted December 21, 2014 Thank you, Carlo. I love these old books. The problem is that my translating is so slow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarloBartolini Posted December 26, 2014 Author Report Share Posted December 26, 2014 Thanks for the post Mike, it can be time consuming, specially the older texts where the language is not that of today, but great way to lear the language, is of any use to you if I share the links I use for translating? Another not so old book, 1863 L'industria cremonese manifatturiera e agricola a l'esposizione universale di Parigi dell'anno 1867 relazione presentata nel dicembre 1867 alla Deputazione provinciale di Cremona da Pietro Fecit... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jezzupe Posted December 26, 2014 Report Share Posted December 26, 2014 Thank you, Carlo. I love these old books. The problem is that my translating is so slow. Mike, just go to utube and pull up some Andrea Bocelli tunes with the lyrics, and sing along....In no time you'll be learning Italian.... "Volevo stare un po' da solo per pensare tu lo sai...." And then when you get really good, you can not only read Carlo's post's, but you can go to the local karaoke bar it just kill it! the hot chicks will dig it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarloBartolini Posted March 8, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 8, 2015 (edited) L'industria cremonese manifatturiera e agricola a l'esposizione universale di Parigi dell'anno 1867 relazione presentata nel dicembre 1867 alla Deputazione provinciale di Cremona da Pietro Fecit Violini - pagina 58 edit - ops...just realized I had already posted this book...sorry.... Edited March 8, 2015 by CarloBartolini Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D. Piolle Posted March 9, 2015 Report Share Posted March 9, 2015 What about Angelo Guidotti 's treatise : https://books.google.fr/books?id=3Q-mruBcyuUC&pg=PA1&dq=Angelo+Guidotti&hl=fr&sa=X&ei=9VH9VJ21McXvUJSMg4AE&ved=0CDsQ6AEwBA#v=onepage&q=Angelo%20Guidotti&f=false in relation to this : http://www.fabiochiariliutaio.com/pdf/The%20rediscovery%20of%20a%20long%20lost%20resin.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Addie Posted March 9, 2015 Report Share Posted March 9, 2015 What about Angelo Guidotti 's treatise : https://books.google.fr/books?id=3Q-mruBcyuUC&pg=PA1&dq=Angelo+Guidotti&hl=fr&sa=X&ei=9VH9VJ21McXvUJSMg4AE&ved=0CDsQ6AEwBA#v=onepage&q=Angelo%20Guidotti&f=false Interesting! 1764, shellac, copal, spirit of wine, amber, boiled linseed oil, walnut oil... that’s as far as I got so far. I couldn’t figure out olio tremontina. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Addie Posted March 9, 2015 Report Share Posted March 9, 2015 I notice Alessandro Capra (Stradivari’s father-in-law) is missing from this topic... Nuova Architettura dell'Agrimensura di terre et acque... da ... La nuoua architettura ciuile, e militare di Alessandro Capra ... Le due prime parti della geometria famigliare d'Alessandro ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D. Piolle Posted March 9, 2015 Report Share Posted March 9, 2015 Interesting! 1764, shellac, copal, spirit of wine, amber, boiled linseed oil, walnut oil... that’s as far as I got so far. I couldn’t figure out olio tremontina. The term itself might mean spirit of turpentine... Spirit of turpentine and essentiel oils were considered as oils before more specific terms were found. Even pure turpentine as it comes out from the tree. Ex : olio d' abezzo = fir turpentine. Depending on the local (old) dialect. Keeping in mind that " abete " means "fir", and "abete rosso" ( literally red fir ) is the word for "spruce" ( color of its bark ) there is still possible confusions. :-P If I am wrong , can someone correct me ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Addie Posted March 9, 2015 Report Share Posted March 9, 2015 I was thinking Venice turpentine, but that’s a wild uneducated guess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael_Molnar Posted March 9, 2015 Report Share Posted March 9, 2015 Interesting! 1764, shellac, copal, spirit of wine, amber, boiled linseed oil, walnut oil... that’s as far as I got so far. I couldn’t figure out olio tremontina. Trementina. Merrifield translates it as turpentine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Beard Posted March 10, 2015 Report Share Posted March 10, 2015 I really appreciate this thread. There's a lot out there to scratch around through. It's nice when people share their finds. Addie- very much like seeing the books on tracery and decoration. Here are some English translations of books I found interesting, though not all of Italian origin. I often find that exploring the traditional arts and craft/industries more broadly can provide good context for understand the old makers. circa 50 B.C. Vitruvius Ten books of Architecture Touchs on timber use and harvest, design issues, colors, etc. At that time, military engines and musical instruments fell under the very broad umbrella of 'architecture'. A renewed awareness of this book, and its cousins, was apparently a major inspiration to North Italian culture at the time the violin emerged. circa 1100 Theophilus On Diverse Arts Builds from the furnace arts and tool making, then on to arts like painting. The major work giving medieval art methods. circa 1400 Cennini Craftsman's Handbook Art principles and training from Northern Italy in the time of vielles and such. This is the best place to start if you want a sense of art and craft methods before the modern paradigm. circa 1500 Da Vinci manuscripts This particular selection from his many papers includes the main parts where Leonardo discusses proportions of the human body. Despite popular myth, it isn't about the golden ratio. His observations are all in terms of simple integer proportions. 1754 Murray Treatise on Shipbuilding Though it addresses mid-18th century English boat building, I found this book interesting. It reveals a major wood based industry still founded on math and geometry that would have been largely recognizable to Northern Italians like Strad's father-in-law Capra. Also documents historical approaches to 3D work that aren't much discussed in the main art texts. Covers concepts that find parallels in violin making: fairing a curve, lofting a curve, using battens to resolve a 3D curve from a few control points, guiding the shape by a long arch (keel) and a few cross archings, combined with smoothing. 1849 Merrifield Translations of Original Arts Treatises from 12th to 18th centuries Vol. I Volume II Translations of many useful old texts on arts, methods, materials. Many recipes. Includes the the Marciana Manuscript from Venice c1513 with its famous varnish recipe. To me, it was interesting to see how the same basic recipe ideas were presented over and over again for centuries. The style of presentation and the descriptions and evolution of materials are also interesting. Modern recipe: In a clean lab environment take 12.456 grams of purified X and mix with 10.6 mg of Y. Use a magnetic stir at precisely such and such speed for exactly 34 secs. Cook for 13.2 minutes at 380.7 degrees, etc. Old style recipes: Get the best light colored tears of X you can buy. Pick out the dirt. Cook 3 of X and 2 of Y together with a 'bean' of Z. Be careful not to let flame touch your varnish. Today those old recipes almost read comically. But they knew a few things. Where the modern world applies scientific knowledge, pure processing, and precision preparation to materials, the old style handles materials with a simple familiarity and an artful intimacy we've mostly lost. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D. Piolle Posted March 10, 2015 Report Share Posted March 10, 2015 I really appreciate this thread. There's a lot out there to scratch around through. It's nice when people share their finds. Addie- very much like seeing the books on tracery and decoration. Here are some English translations of books I found interesting, though not all of Italian origin. I often find that exploring the traditional arts and craft/industries more broadly can provide good context for understand the old makers. circa 50 B.C. Vitruvius Ten books of Architecture Touchs on timber use and harvest, design issues, colors, etc. At that time, military engines and musical instruments fell under the very broad umbrella of 'architecture'. A renewed aware of this book, and its cousins, was apparently a major inspiration to North Italian culture at the time the violin emerged. circa 1100 Theophilus On Diverse Arts Builds from the furnace arts and tool making, then on to arts like painting. The major work giving medieval art methods. circa 1400 Cennini Craftsman's Handbook Art principles and training from Northern Italy in the time of vielles and such. This is the best place to start if you want a sense of art and craft methods before the modern paradigm. circa 1500 Da Vinci manuscripts This particular selection from his many papers includes the main parts where Leonardo discusses proportions of the human body. Despite popular myth, it isn't about the golden ratio. His observations are all in terms of simple integer proportions. 1754 Murray Treatise on Shipbuilding Though it addresses mid-18th century English boat building, I found this book interesting. It reveals a major wood based industry still founded on math and geometry that would have been largely recognizable to Northern Italians like Strad's father-in-law Capra. Also documents historical approaches to 3D work that aren't much discussed in the main art texts. Covers concepts that find parallels in violin making: fairing a curve, lofting a curve, using battens to resolve a 3D curve from a few control points, guiding the shape by a long arch (keel) and a few cross archings, combined with smoothing. 1849 Merrifield Translations of Original Arts Treatises from 12th to 18th centuries Vol. I Volume II Translations of many useful old texts on arts, methods, materials. Many recipes. Includes the the Marciana Manuscript from Venice c1513 with its famous varnish recipe. To me, it was interesting to see how the same basic recipe ideas were presented over and over again for centuries. The style of presentation and the descriptions and evolution of materials are also interesting. Modern recipe: In a clean lab environment take 12.456 grams of purified X and mix with 10.6 mg of Y. Use a magnetic stir at precisely such and such speed for exactly 34 secs. Cook for 13.2 minutes at 380.7 degrees, etc. Old style recipes: Get the best light colored tears of X you can buy. Pick out the dirt. Cook 3 of X and 2 of Y together with a 'bean' of Z. Be careful not to let flame touch your varnish. Today those old recipes almost read comically. But they knew a few things. Where the modern world applies scientific knowledge, pure processing, and precision preparation to materials, the old style handles materials with a simple familiarity and an artful intimacy we've mostly lost. Yes I ' ve got them all, except, Vitruvius and Murray Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D. Piolle Posted March 10, 2015 Report Share Posted March 10, 2015 Good point Michael, but it seems like there are few translation mistakes in Merryfield, though her work on the old treatises is great. I don't always trust translations, I ' ve seen many obvious mistakes in many books. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D. Piolle Posted March 10, 2015 Report Share Posted March 10, 2015 G.B. Armenini "De Veri preceti de la pittura" : https://books.google.fr/books?id=r789AAAAcAAJ&printsec=frontcover&dq=Armenini+de+veri+precetti+della+pittura&hl=fr&sa=X&ei=d5X-VO7aPIK3UZH3gfAL&ved=0CCMQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=Armenini%20de%20veri%20precetti%20della%20pittura&f=false Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
not telling Posted March 10, 2015 Report Share Posted March 10, 2015 Trementina. Merrifield translates it as turpentine. There's a recipe in the de Mayerne manuscript. Then about a dozen that use it. One recipe as I remember calls for oil of turpentine and turpentine both. Oil of turp sounds hugely interesting to me too. I didn't think it is only turpentine...extra step is time in the sun to evaporate, or maybe distilling. I could find it. Want a recipe? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D. Piolle Posted March 10, 2015 Report Share Posted March 10, 2015 There's a recipe in the de Mayerne manuscript. Then about a dozen that use it. One recipe as I remember calls for oil of turpentine and turpentine both. Oil of turp sounds hugely interesting to me too. I didn't think it is only turpentine...extra step is time in the sun to evaporate, or maybe distilling. I could find it. Want a recipe? If any of you want the link to the " T. De Mayerne " manuscript , I could provide it as well but it is in French, But for sure , he sometimes refer to Italian texts... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.