CarloBartolini Posted April 24, 2013 Report Share Posted April 24, 2013 I am always running into some old italian texts related to violin. I wish I had the time to translate them, but I thought I'd post them in this thread as I find them. Hopefully others may too. Elementi teorico-pratici di Musica con un saggio sopra l'Arte di suonare il violino - 1791 Ttechnical aspects begins on page 63. Have Fun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Beard Posted April 24, 2013 Report Share Posted April 24, 2013 Grazie! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vathek Posted April 24, 2013 Report Share Posted April 24, 2013 he could compose: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Carlson Posted April 25, 2013 Report Share Posted April 25, 2013 I am always running into some old italian texts related to violin. I wish I had the time to translate them, but I thought I'd post them in this thread as I find them. Hopefully others may too. Elementi teorico-pratici di Musica con un saggio sopra l'Arte di suonare il violino - 1791 Setup and technical aspects begins on page 63. Have Fun. Grazie Carlo! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romberg flat Posted April 25, 2013 Report Share Posted April 25, 2013 I can hardly resist a smell of the old books so I immediately went through this one, in spite not knowing Italian, and I found this interesting detail: On p. 81 Galeazzi is counting his favorite violin makers: “Steiner, Swizzero, Castagnery, Chapuy, Francesi, Nicolo, Andrea ed Antonio Amati, Antonio Stradivari, Guarnerio, e Ruggeri, tutti Cremonesi….Mattia Albano, Giacomo Horil, David Tekler, Tedeschi, Nicolo Galliani, Napoletano…. He particularly emphasized Giuseppe Odoardi whose violins were in that time, according to G., considered equal with those from Cremona. Intriguing thing is that Galeazzi (b.1758 – d. 1819) wrote about Odoardi that he lived only 28 years and made about 200 violins. Nowadays we know that, according to one authority he was working until 1675 in Ascoli, and according to another, was born about 1740, but generally accepted years are b. 1746 – d. c.1786, so he lived more or less 40 years (see Cozio or Amati data). Furthermore, in Cozio archives there are 34 violins (majority of them are certified) dated from 1770 to 1792. So it is to conclude that Galeazzi failed when asserted Odoardi lived only 28 years. This is not strange at all, since it is very well known about uncertainness of old sources. But, on the other hand – if our nowadays knowledge is right, Odoardi and Galeazzi lived in the same time, so Galeazzi probably had to know what he was writing about. I can't stop asking myself what is the heck here, perhaps another, now Odoardi’s code??? Sorry Carlo but I couldn't help myself not to mention 'code' …with all my respect; the book is great, thanks for sharing it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarloBartolini Posted July 4, 2013 Author Report Share Posted July 4, 2013 Gli strumenti musicali all'esposizione italiana del 1861 descrizione sommaria e motivi dei giudizii pronunziati dalla terza Sezione della Classe 9. del Consiglio dei Giurati per L. F. Casamorata String instruments page 31 - and the #1 medal goes to Antonio Guadagnini Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarloBartolini Posted July 30, 2013 Author Report Share Posted July 30, 2013 Not much said here, except being an early mention of the violin, then called violina (with an "a"). La Tipocosmia di Alessandro Citolini da Serravalle -1561 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarloBartolini Posted July 30, 2013 Author Report Share Posted July 30, 2013 (edited) This is interesting for a novice like me....maybe some more informed member can comment. - the name "la violetta". edit - .. if there is connection from the ribecca with the violin, il violino, la violina, la violetta?Il dittionario di Ambrogio Calepino dalla lingua latina nella volgare brevemente ridotto. Per lo signor Lucio Minerbi.. -1553 Edited July 30, 2013 by carlobartolini Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joerobson Posted July 30, 2013 Report Share Posted July 30, 2013 Carlo, The things you dig up never cease to amaze me! on we go, Joe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will L Posted July 30, 2013 Report Share Posted July 30, 2013 In the blurb on Rocca on page 31or 32 of the 1861 exhibit, it seems to translate that G. Rocca is being quoted. If so, that's quite a find for such an iconic maker. If someone who speaks Italian would check that out and let us know what he's saying, I'd appreciate it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarloBartolini Posted July 31, 2013 Author Report Share Posted July 31, 2013 Thanks, Joe, nice of you. In the blurb on Rocca on page 31or 32 of the 1861 exhibit, it seems to translate that G. Rocca is being quoted. If so, that's quite a find for such an iconic maker. If someone who speaks Italian would check that out and let us know what he's saying, I'd appreciate it. Please excuse the "traduttore traditore" [traitor translator] ....me... ..and the spelling/grammar mistakes which naturally occur in my writing.. (feel free to correct me...please) It appears the jury was not in a great mood....maybe a cold front had just hit Florence and they where all feisty. § IIString Instruments. Ad Arco ed a pizzico The exposition of these instruments, ancient glory of Italy, as a set it is not too comforting ; what's more in midst of many mediocre labors are noted some honorable exceptions. 1. Guadagnini Antonio, of Turin …. 2. Chiocchi Gaetano, of Padova …. 3. Rocca Giuseppe, of Turin, exposed three violins of the price of 150 lire each, one viola of the same price, and one arpichitarra [harp-guitar] of the price of 200 lire. The violins are not all of the same quality ; but in general the instruments exposed by this maker have good quality of sound, and reciprocate well. The labor appears at times somewhat ordinary, and the varnish disunite. So much that it appears as if they are still not completely finished. The harp-guitar is a ordinary six string guitar, to which laterally are added another seven to be played a vuoto [in vacuum - meaning freely] to reinforce the bass. The Rocca says this instrument is his invention, it may be so in any particularity of the construction, but the idea of adding to the instrument some strings to be played a vuoto remounts back to the time of the arci-liuti [arch-lutes] ; afterwards almost everyone has heard the famous Legnani playing a guitar assembled according to this same system. In spite of the mends above indicated, in view of the musical value of the instruments ad arco by this exhibitor, the section (jury) would be of the opinion that it should be obliged to concede the laureate of the medal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will L Posted July 31, 2013 Report Share Posted July 31, 2013 Thanks Carlo, for the topic and for the above translation. I had missed that the quoting of Rocca was about his "harp-guitar." That makes what followed a little less interesting, but still interesting in that the writer quoted him at all, and that he made instruments outside the violin family. I never saw anything in my limited literature that Rocca did so. Also interesting that his regular instruments seemed, to the judges, unfinished. According to Henley Rocca did go through a period of upheaval resulting from "certain irregular habits" which perhaps was setting in about the time of this exposition. He would not be the first or last maker to get to an exposition or competition with instruments not quite perfectly finished. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Addie Posted August 1, 2013 Report Share Posted August 1, 2013 Not really that old, but... Nuove indagini su Antonio Stradivari Alfonso Mandelli, 1903 This is the book that the Hills lifted, er, borrowed many of the engravings from, for their Strad book. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Violadamore Posted August 1, 2013 Report Share Posted August 1, 2013 Not really that old, but... Nuove indagini su Antonio Stradivari Alfonso Mandelli, 1903 This is the book that the Hills lifted, er, borrowed many of the engravings from, for their Strad book. The difference between plagiarism and scholarship is a bibliography and a good set of footnotes Thanks for the link Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarloBartolini Posted August 1, 2013 Author Report Share Posted August 1, 2013 Thanks Addie, very interesting book... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captainhook Posted August 1, 2013 Report Share Posted August 1, 2013 Nuove indagini su Antonio StradivariAlfonso Mandelli, 1903 This is the book that the Hills lifted, er, borrowed many of the engravings from, for their Strad book. My Dover edition says that the Hill book was published in 1902. Did they time travel, or is there another explanation? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Addie Posted August 1, 2013 Report Share Posted August 1, 2013 Mandelli was a lawyer, journalist, and playwright. He was the author of more than 6 books. Hill’s book says: PREFACE TO THE FIRST EDITION. The idea of writing this book is in some measure due to the intelligent initiative of Signor Mandelli, of Cremona, to whom, as well as to our friends and subscribers, we owe some words of explanation and apology. Full of the desire to obtain fresh information concerning Antonio Stradivari, Signor Mandelli determined to make further researches in the archives of his native city, and thus add to the world's knowledge; and, his material collected, he approached us in the year 1890 with a view to its publication in English and Italian. Mandelli’s name appears 22 times in Hill’s book, exclusive of the index. I recall reading that the illustrations of Cremona came from Mandelli. I can’t find that reference at the moment. So I will retract my lighthearted, offhand comment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael_Molnar Posted August 1, 2013 Report Share Posted August 1, 2013 Very enlightening. Thanks, Addie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Addie Posted August 1, 2013 Report Share Posted August 1, 2013 BTW, there is a fairly large bibliography here: Archivo della Liuteria Cremonese The site also contains lists of historical documents pertaining to, and instruments made by, Cremona luthiers. For example, for Nicolo Amati, it lists: di Amati Nicolò DOCUMENTI Trovati 16 elementi. 1596 - Battesimo di Nicolò 1645 - Matrimonio di Nicolò Amati con Lucrezia Pagliari 1646 - Battesimo di Girolamo Francesco Amati 1647 - Battesimo di Teresa Francesca Amati 1648 - Sepoltura di Girolamo Francesco Amati 1649 - Battesimo di Girolamo II Amati 1650 - Battesimo di Teresa Amati 1653 - Battesimo di Gian Battista Amati 1654 - Sepoltura di Gian Battista Amati 1655 - Battesimo di Anna Maria Amati 1657 - Battesimo di Giovanni Battista 1659 - Battesimo di Giuseppe Amati 1661 - Battesimo di Eufrasia Scolastica Amati 1684 - Sepoltura di Nicolò Amati 1703 - Morte e sepoltura di Lucrezia Pagliari 1718 - Morte e sepoltura di don Giovanni Battista Amati ... and a list of 242 instruments! This includes small B&W photos, date, provenance, and bibliographic references. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Addie Posted August 22, 2013 Report Share Posted August 22, 2013 Another cool book: La vera perfettione del disegno di varie sorti di ricami, & di cucire ogni sorte di punti à fogliami, punti tagliati, punti à fili, & rimessi, punti incrociati, pũti à stuora, & ogn'altra arrte, che dia opera à disegni. Fatto nuouamente per Giouanni Ostaus. Plate 34 should look familiar... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarloBartolini Posted November 18, 2013 Author Report Share Posted November 18, 2013 De i vizi, e de i difetti del moderno teatro e del modo di correggergli, e d'emendarli ragionamenti 6. di Lauriso Tragiense pastore arcade. - 1753 Not much of interest here but some thoughts..... Ragionamento Secondo - page 82 violino --- pages 83, 86, 87, 88, 105 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Addie Posted November 19, 2013 Report Share Posted November 19, 2013 Hmmm... 1. Death of Orpheus 2. Hermes inventing the lyre 3.? 4.? (nice feathers ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omobono Posted November 20, 2013 Report Share Posted November 20, 2013 BTW, there is a fairly large bibliography here: Archivo della Liuteria Cremonese The site also contains lists of historical documents pertaining to, and instruments made by, Cremona luthiers. Thanks, Addie. I enjoyed exploring this site, even though I picked up this thread fairly late. A lot of data packed in there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarloBartolini Posted February 24, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 24, 2014 Scelta Di Opuscoli Interessanti Nuova Edizione Tomo III - 1784 Del Sig. Conte Benvenuto di San Rafaele, Torinese. begins page 136 Dell' Arte Del Suono Some comments on sound, playing, bow etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarloBartolini Posted May 14, 2014 Author Report Share Posted May 14, 2014 A book in acoustics 1680 Del suono de' tremori armonici e dell'vdito: Trattati del P. Daniello Bartoli della Compagnia di Gesu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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