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Jay Haide fakes


victordriver
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I bought a violin on EBay labelled Jay Haide last August. I checked on the internet beforehand to see if there was any thread on fakes - there were none. I just discovered that mine is a fake - six months after buying it. I only found out when I saw a real one and noticed that Berkeley was spelled Berkley on mine.

 

I've checked with the UK main importer and Ifshins - it is definitely a fake. I wouldn't mind if I had paid below  trade on it, as it was I paid a good price. Apparently there are lots of fakes out there so watch out when you bid.

 

I can provide the sellers details if anyone wants them.

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I don't fully understand why you want to fake an inexpensive instrument to begin with.  What's the point in doing that?

 

Not all Haide instruments are that inexpensive these days, particularly some of the antiqued ones. It has become a well known brand which represents good value and workmanship,

 

It's much easier to sell something that is well known, so you can see why someone would be putting false labels inside other cheaper instruments to create sales. It's not that the instruments themselves are being copied, just spurious labels being inserted into cheap generic trade ones.

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Don't they run $1000-3000 for a violin?  That seems to be in the same price range as any of the 'better' factory violins, be it Eastman, Shen, etc.

 

And I can find many other violins in that price range...so I don't see a need to have a fake...

 

Or am I still missing something?

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The point is that a cheaper product is being passed off as something else for financial gain.

 

While it might not seem like it would make much sense for an instrument at the student end of the market, they are selling hundreds like that, which will soon make quite a lot of money.

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Don't they run $1000-3000 for a violin?  That seems to be in the same price range as any of the 'better' factory violins, be it Eastman, Shen, etc.

 

And I can find many other violins in that price range...so I don't see a need to have a fake...

 

Or am I still missing something?

If you buy a violin wholesale for $150, relabel it for $0.50, and clear $600.00 auctioning it on eBay, you just made $449.50 profit.  If you manage this 3 times a week, you're making over $70,000 a year.

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Well yes...but why not just market it and put in your own label and be legit?  If people are buying them and are happy with them, the sound quality must be close or equal?

Many do.  I'll grant the legality, though i consider the legitimacy arguable.  You actually see more of that at the bottom end where the violins wholesale for 50 bucks or less.  As far as sound goes, that could start a riot, so I'm not going there :lol: .  As far as why commit larceny, some people seem to enjoy criminal activity.  Leaving the faking of modern Italians or other modern makers out of it, I know of at least one long time successful retailer on eBay who has gone to the trouble of setting up fake web sites for their fake makers that they sell their Chinese fiddles under the label of, and they sell a lot of them with excellent feedback.  This tell you anything?

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Jay Haide's have become really familiar to teachers, so whatever the merits of them, there are enough teachers in England and probably elsewhere who trust the brand, and that's what their students will buy. Its amazing though, some Otto Musica cellos, which are frankly better, and Romanian antiqued things are surfacing with antiquing that really does resemble a Jay Haide - because these makers know what the shops are selling and what doesn't. I wouldn't be in the least surprised if this fake was as good as, or better than the real thing, take the fake label out and there's a fair chance it will probably hold its value! Ultimately Maestronet is full of people who are too geeky or too intelligent to go for brand names like this, but this isn't the case for the vast majority of the market out there.... 

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Jay Haide's have become really familiar to teachers, so whatever the merits of them, there are enough teachers in England and probably elsewhere who trust the brand, and that's what their students will buy. Its amazing though, some Otto Musica cellos, which are frankly better, and Romanian antiqued things are surfacing with antiquing that really does resemble a Jay Haide - because these makers know what the shops are selling and what doesn't. I wouldn't be in the least surprised if this fake was as good as, or better than the real thing, take the fake label out and there's a fair chance it will probably hold its value! Ultimately Maestronet is full of people who are too geeky or too intelligent to go for brand names like this, but this isn't the case for the vast majority of the market out there.... 

 

Without seeing or playing the instrument first hand, that is all speculative as I highly doubt the seller on ebay is selling these instruments without profit margins as the main driving factor but with the clients content as his main motivation . Do not get me wrong, I play instruments I like both tonally and in terms of craftsmanship and material regardless of who or when it was made, I am not one to buy because of name value or prestige, race of the maker etc etc in fact, I tend to avoid well known makers and brands as the prices rarely correspond to the instruments qualities.  

 

My advice, take it up with ebay and if you payed via paypall write them up as well and explain your situation. Normally paypall is extremely helpful in cases like yours and ebay takes quick with their actions against fraudes. I do hope however that the instrument is decent and that the negative lies only in the fact it's label is fake as you have only noticed the forgery now?

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Thanks for all your posts on this topic. Jay Haide, as one member states, are priced pretty high at about $1500 to $2000 retail new. This is on a par with a decent purchase at auction of a legit antique violin. The underlying trade price is much lower than this (est 30% of retail) but it is still much higher than a high quality unlabelled chinese violin that will get $100.

 

So there is plenty of reason to fake them along with all the re-labelled German stuff already out there. It isn't a bad violin and will probably see me through but it is annoying to be cheated this way. I don't have any recourse under UK law or through EBay/Paypal (90 day rule).

 

For those interested and can understand cryptic clues - the UK seller was 'Old Foggy' - selling from Yorkshire and Lancashire. The person knew it was a fake as he admitted he had bought Haides in the past from the main dealer (and so would have recognised the labelling error).

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Desert Rat sorry for not responding earlier I thought the topic had run its course. Old Foggy is 'exmisty' - I shouldn't be too hard on the guy as I'm sure that he provides value for money in most cases (albeit with recently deceased Italian makers appearing too often). I can't see him selling much stateside so you probably won't deal with him.

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