rehairing tortoise shell bows

[nathan slobodkin]

Just had someone make an apointment to have a pretty nice tortoise shell frogged bow rehaired. I have a real phobia about these  because I  have the feeling that they are really fragile and therefor don't want to fit the spreader wedge as tight as I normally do because I don't want to press very hard when sliding the wedge home. At the same time I have the feeling that the glue which I use to anchor the wedge (Franklin cold hide glue) doesn't stick very well to the T- shell and the only times I have ever had  ferrule wedges  fall out it was on T-shell bows. Any thoughts on better glues for Tortoise shell or other strategys for dealing with this stuff?

[Woodland]

It doesn't sound like you've rehaired these before. They are indeed fragile. The wedge coming out is the least of your potential problems when working with this material. It's an exceptionally beautiful material for bow frogs, however very impractical because it's not durable and also succeptible to insect damage. If you're not experienced/confident enough to work with shell, there's no one forcing you to accept it. If something goes wrong during the rehair process, whether old repairs coming undone or inflicting new damage of your own, you'll likely end up wishing you had declined the bow.

[skiingfiddler]

Woodland raises some important points of caution.

 

I knew a careful and experienced repair guy, who flat out would not rehair tortoise shell bows.

 

Anyway, maybe the general rule should be that if a rehairer would not have the experience to repair any of the damage the tortoise shell might undergo while in the shop (eg, a piece breaking away, discoloration or loss of transparency), it's best not to accept the bow.

 

PS: My comment is not directed at anybody specifically, certainly not Nathan, who has the experience and professional contacts to get the job done properly.

[Josh Henry]

Hi Nathan. I regularly see bows with tortoise (and ivory) frogs cross my rehair bench. The best advice I can give you is to not let the "specialness" of the bow freak you out so that your methods vary on bow to bow. Do your best job on all bows, and do it every time, so that when something like a gold/tortoise bow crosses your bench (or a Peccatte, Tourte, Sartory...), you don't have to take extra-special measures. This was advice given to me many years ago by one of my mentors. In essence, what this meant to me was to develop my techniques so that all bows, regardless of materials, maker, or value were done with the same care.

 

Now, to reality... I find that the most un-nerving part of rehairing a tortoise frog is removing to ferrule and spreadwedge from the last rehair. It is at this point that if the last rehair guy botched it by pressing in a log-sized wedge, it can possibly come apart in my hands (yes, it has happened to me before). You are experienced in rehairing bows, so you already have the technique and the jigs, fixtures, and holders that will not damage bows, so keep on doing what you have been doing. And yes, do take a bit of extra care around the thin corners and edges of the tortoiseshell.

 

Regarding the glue for the spreadwedge. As you do, I too use the cold hide glue (yeah, that detestable stuff in the brown bottle). I have found that it causes the least amount of damage in removing wedges from ebony frogs. I've never had any of my wedges pop out of tortoise frogs though. Perhaps your popped wedges were a result of being a little too ginger in pressing a tight wedge in the frog in the first place. Here again, I wouldn't change a successful method that has worked for you in the past.

 

Good luck and enjoy the nice bow!

[Conor Russell]

Sometimes tortoiseshell frogs seem to have little grip on the spreadwedge, particularly if the tongue has been repaired or strengthened with a brass insert. A couple of times I have thought it best to line the tongue with a slip of 400 grit wet and dry sandpaper, glued on with the rough side facing the wedge. It gives the wedge a good grip and can be taken out, causing no damage at all.

[Florian Schneidt]

Hi Nathan,

 

the advice given by Josh is excellent, confidence and care practised in all work is the key to deal with precaire moments. I still hate dealing with tortoiseshell, ivory I personally I have no problem with and think it is great stuff!

What I always do with more expensive tortoise mounted bows is to advice the customer to have a frog copy made, as I think that is the best way to insure its value.

I used a horn comb for years for rehairing, it got regularly wet by combing the wet hair, and in the end there were layers peeling of and teeth breaking, I use that comb now to demonstrate the destructive force of water and sweat to tortoiseshell, it does the trick!

 

Greetings, Florian

 

PS I use fast white glue for the spreader wedge, I haven't encountered problems with tortoiseshell with it. I don't make spreader wedges different for tortoise shell bows as I think the ferrule deals with the wedge, not the material of the frog (I always use lime for spreaders though). If the ferrule is extremely fragile I will inform the customer and deal accordingly with it (or repair).

[nathan slobodkin]

Thanks for the comments people

 

As the only competent rehairer within a 125 mile radius I sometimes feel obligated to take on work that I would rather avoid. On something like a Tourte bow I could rehair it 999 times correctly and still lose money if something went wrong on the 1000th!  As Josh said seeing the nice stuff is the reward for the risk.

 

A couple more questions  for the bowmakers in the group  Was it common for some makers to put a metal insert in the tongue of tortoise shell bows? I have seen several where they had obviously been repaired but have seen others where either the repair was so good as to be invisible or the insert looked to have been put in as a preemptive reinforcement. Also was wondering about methods of repairing T-shell such as what kind of glues can be used. Obviously I would farm out this type of work to a specialist but the more I know then the more I know.

[DGerald StephenR]

Was it common for some makers to put a metal insert in the tongue of tortoise shell bows? I have seen several where they had obviously been repaired but have seen others where either the repair was so good as to be invisible or the insert looked to have been put in as a preemptive reinforcement.

Hi Nathan,

 

   Someone please correct me if I'm wrong but I do recall somewhere along the road being told that the Hill's would use metal inserts as reinforcement for the tortoise frogs they were making.

 

All the best with the rehair 

DGSR

[Woodland]

Yes, I've rehaired a Malcolm Taylor tortoise frog that had a metal reinforcement in the tongue, but no lining on the top of the frog. My guess is that the maker didn't want to insert screws or pins into the frog to weaken it. Rather than place the unlined upside down frog into my frog holder when setting the plug, I held it in my hand by the sides when I plugged it.

[AtlVcl]

Hi Nathan,

 

I assume you know I'm not in your side of the business, but that doesn't mean I can't have an opinion.  A good and highly knowledgeable friend of mine says the first couple hundred rehairs you do will suck.  I know you're highly experienced, but I'd propose that in the spirit of "discretion being the better part of valor" I think you should advise your client to send the bow to an acknowledged expert*** who does this stuff all day long.  Be sure to remind him of the fragility of the material, and that you don't want to be held liable for something that quite literally can't be replaced.   

 

I'd also advise him if he doesn't want to go thru this hassle a couple times a year that he should commission a horn frog from a reliable and highly experienced source, and save the TS for resale value.  I know a world-famous solo cellist who (accidentally) broke the TS frog on a Simon a couple decades back.  If you break it, there's no way to put it right without attendant visible scars, and IMHO, you stand to potentially lose more $$$ than you want to risk gaining in experience (with TS bows, I mean...)

 

*** I'm thinking of Don Cohen in VA or Jose da Cunha in Miami, but then you probably know more of those guys than me.

[nathan slobodkin]

Thanks again for all the comments you have all made good points. I realize that I need to qualify something I said before about being the only competent rehairer in the area. It would have been more accurate and less like an arrogant A-hole to say that there is nobody in the area who I feel is more competent at these jobs than I and that is why I feel obligated to take them on . Unfortunately if I don't do them there are some people who are willing to do anything but who don't have either the skills or the knowledge to be respectfull of rare and valuable stuff. I guess the answer is to continue to upgrade any weaknesses in my skills and perhaps improve my weaseling skills as well. I certainly miss the days when Bill Halsey was less than an hour away and I could send these jobs to him.

[Guy_Gallo]

   Someone please correct me if I'm wrong but I do recall somewhere along the road being told that the Hill's would use metal inserts as reinforcement for the tortoise frogs they were making.

 

I have a Retford Hill bow that I just had re-haired and it had a bit of metal re-inforcing the area where the plug/ferrule go.  It is also unlined on the top.