Ron MacDonald Posted March 31, 2013 Report Share Posted March 31, 2013 I seem to remember that Michael Darnton also said that he used Hill peg paste. By the way, although I didn't always agree with him, I miss his contributions to this forum very much. I wish he could be persuaded to return. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lyndon Posted March 31, 2013 Report Share Posted March 31, 2013 Jeffrey, the question being raised is not whether Hill compound is useable(I'm sure it is) but rather is it intelligent or even possible to use nothing else but Hill compound, or is it wise to have a second or third compound to use sparingly to increase or decrease the slipperyness of the peg fit that the Hill compound gives..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeffrey Holmes Posted March 31, 2013 Report Share Posted March 31, 2013 Jeffrey, the question being raised is not whether Hill compound is useable(I'm sure it is) but rather is it intelligent or even possible to use nothing else but Hill compound, or is it wise to have a second or third compound to use sparingly to increase or decrease the slipperyness of the peg fit that the Hill compound gives..... Hi Lyndon; Hill peg compound does not strike me as slippery, but I guess we each need to rely on our own experiences. I've tried other things, but seem to return to the lipstick... so I think I have an open mind for alternatives presented by others... especially those who I respect, but don't feel compelled to seek out those alternatives when I'm getting fine, recreate-able results with the procedure and materials I'm using. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lyndon Posted March 31, 2013 Report Share Posted March 31, 2013 You didn't answer my question, Jeffrey, which is are you recommending using Hill compound alone, or with judicious use of other substances like chalk in addition, when needed?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martin swan Posted March 31, 2013 Report Share Posted March 31, 2013 The opposite of end grain would be side grain .... As Jacob states, differential wood movement will cause peg holes to become oval at times of extreme dryness or extreme humidity. But pegs also become marginally oval if they shrink or expand from their round state, since shrinkage along the slab is double that of shrinkage on the quarter. A well made peg will necessarily contain equal amounts of each! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron MacDonald Posted March 31, 2013 Report Share Posted March 31, 2013 If I were to find that pegs slipped after using Hill composition, I would suspect that the fit of the pegs was less than perfect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lyndon Posted March 31, 2013 Report Share Posted March 31, 2013 On a newer violin, as the maple of the pegbox dries out, the holes will become oval just like new pegs tend to, on a hundred year old violin, this drying has largely taken its course and I wouldn't expect the pegholes to tend towards oval, like new pegs can. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeffrey Holmes Posted March 31, 2013 Report Share Posted March 31, 2013 You didn't answer my question, Jeffrey, which is are you recommending using Hill compound alone, or with judicious use of other substances like chalk in addition, when needed?? I guess I did't answer... Not sure I have one. Further complicated, I suppose, if I were acting as a battlefield medic... as my answer would be different that if we were discussing an instrument going through the shop. As I mentioned, I think I'm open minded, but I don't personally feel I have a recommendation or offers for alternatives. We're speaking of new installations here, as far as I can tell, and if the pegs fit well, you really don't need much of anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lyndon Posted March 31, 2013 Report Share Posted March 31, 2013 That's not an answer, Jeffrey, how about this, in the course of your work with pegs, old and new, do you ever use any substances(which can remain unamed if you so wish) in addition to Hill compound, or do you feel that Hill compound alone solves all the problems that arise once the pegs are fitting perfectly? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeffrey Holmes Posted March 31, 2013 Report Share Posted March 31, 2013 That's not an answer, Jeffrey, how about this, in the course of your work with pegs, old and new, do you ever use any substances(which can remain unamed if you so wish) in addition to Hill compound, or do you feel that Hill compound alone solves all the problems that arise once the pegs are fitting perfectly? Gosh Lyndon... I thought it was kind of an answer... ...but the answer to your new question is "rarely do I personally use other compounds or additives". No absolutes, however. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Burgess Posted March 31, 2013 Report Share Posted March 31, 2013 A large proportion of people who come with “peg problems” do so because they havn’t threaded the string onto the pegs properly. In the winter here it can easily get to -20°C outside, as against. +20°C indoors, so that haveing the string sit snugly against the pegbox wall is neccesary. We have similar temperatures where I live. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lyndon Posted March 31, 2013 Report Share Posted March 31, 2013 David and Jacob might have a point, Southern California is a totally different climate, I checked with my top expert friend(who showed me my first genuine Stradivari) about Hill compound, he said 30 years ago when he worked in England, Hill compound worked just fine out of the tube, without the need for chalk etc, He says he thinks the formula may have changed or maybe its just the different climate, because now he finds Hill compound to be too soft or slippery to use without chalk. It also has a lot to do with what you consider slippery, I consider a peg that turns really easily without much friction to be "slippery" and strive for a peg that requires a sort of maximum amount of friction to turn without becoming too hard to turn for the musician. I do so in the perhaps mistaken belief that a peg that offers more friction to turning is less likely to slip in the long term. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robertdo Posted March 31, 2013 Report Share Posted March 31, 2013 Isn't the E string peg most sensitive? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lyndon Posted March 31, 2013 Report Share Posted March 31, 2013 I think the e string is the most sensitive to turning, but its also the one peg where a little clicking wouldn't hurt since you're not using it for fine tuning, but using the fine tuner on the tailpiece Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeDeF Posted April 1, 2013 Report Share Posted April 1, 2013 You could at least tell me what the opposite of end grain is called in English, since I can’t think of the word. Hi Jacob, Here in the states, we call it "long grain" most of the time. At least in woodworking circles, that's what I hear (and use myself). Joe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacobsaunders Posted April 1, 2013 Report Share Posted April 1, 2013 Hi Jacob, Here in the states, we call it "long grain" most of the time. At least in woodworking circles, that's what I hear (and use myself). Joe Thank-you very much! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vathek Posted April 1, 2013 Report Share Posted April 1, 2013 It surprises me that a straight forward query about the cost of fitting new pegs can turn into such an intense and prolonged discussion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martin swan Posted April 1, 2013 Report Share Posted April 1, 2013 Hi Jacob, Here in the states, we call it "long grain" most of the time. At least in woodworking circles, that's what I hear (and use myself). Joe The strict opposite of end grain is side grain - but "long grain" makes sense too, that is until you find yourself trying to describe the opposite of "short grain" ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeffrey Holmes Posted April 1, 2013 Report Share Posted April 1, 2013 It surprises me that a straight forward query about the cost of fitting new pegs can turn into such an intense and prolonged discussion. Amazing, ain't it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacobsaunders Posted April 1, 2013 Report Share Posted April 1, 2013 side grain.JPG The strict opposite of end grain is side grain - but "long grain" makes sense too, that is until you find yourself trying to describe the opposite of "short grain" ... English is a complicated language, isn't it! (not to mention American) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martin swan Posted April 1, 2013 Report Share Posted April 1, 2013 That was actually from the American woodworker's bible (nobody reads it all) : "Understanding Wood" by the inimitable R. Bruce Hoadley ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hungrycanine Posted April 1, 2013 Author Report Share Posted April 1, 2013 Well, I figure I should reply, since I was the one who started this post! I now have tonnes of info about slipping pegs that is entirely new to me, and I thank this forum for that. My previous two violins never had an issue with pegs slipping, although I'd heard much about it, so asked. I've kept the newly acquired (and offending) French violin in its case with a humidifier for several days, and the slippage issue has vastly improved! I've no idea where or how the instrument had been stored previously, but it (and I) are from semi-arid southern Alberta, and it is clear that the violin had not been stored properly. By the way, my previous violins have always had fine tuners on all four strings. This new French one only has a fine-tuner on the E string, so even the basic process of tuning with the pegs is unfamiliar to me. I'll see what happens next, and thanks to these many pages of responses, I'll have some ideas for Plan B if required. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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