Look Ma, no saddle!

[David Burgess]

"...upper shoulder protecting tape..."

 

Serious question... where does one buy this material?

Best regards,

 

E

One of my favorites was clear plastic shelf paper. It was easy to cut to shape before removing the adhesive protecting backing; the adhesive was weak, allowing easy removal; it tended not to leave adhesive residue after removal. The downside was that it didn't stay attached as well as some more tenacious tapes, like clear packing tape, or some of the 3M products. Jeffrey, what have you been using lately? Is there some kind of a "conservator" tape?

 

Not “outside of the box,” but inside of the (Wurlitzer) catalogue:

Lots of possibilities. One could run a vertical member from a threaded "endbutton", to just over the edge of the top, and attach a much shorter tail adjuster at that point. I'd actually prefer that from a force vector and loading perspective. And a series of tail adjuster locating notches at the top of that member would allow easy adjustment of string angle.

I already fit the endbutton on this fiddle, but maybe I'll bush the endbutton hole on some junk fiddle and mock that up.

 

Sometimes, it comes down to a guess about what violinists will accept, and easy availability of parts. I think just about any luthier would be able to fashion a simple bent piece of aluminum (like the original photo), should it need to be replaced at some point. Go much beyond that, and it starts to get more iffy.

[MikeC]

http://www.strutpatent.com/patent/07759567/single-vertex-damped-cable-tailpiece-for-bowed-string-instruments

 

was looking for something else and found this 

[David Burgess]

Lots of possibilities. One could run a vertical member from a threaded "endbutton", to just over the edge of the top, and attach a much shorter tail adjuster at that point. I'd actually prefer that from a force vector and loading perspective. And a series of tail adjuster locating notches at the top of that member would allow easy adjustment of string angle.

I'll need to back off on that one for now, after thinking about it some more. It would place the top under greater longitudinal compression than a standard setup. So we've got everything from increased lengthwise compession, to Marty's zero  compression in this thread. A lot to sort out.

[James Ansara]

Thanks for the set up tip, D. Burgess!

[David Burgess]

Thanks for the set up tip, D. Burgess!

I happen to have a cello strung up that way right now.

 

It will get a conventional saddle before it goes out the door (questions of acceptance by musicians), but it's handy for getting string tension on the instrument right away so it can get started on its "string tension morph phase". I like 'em really stable before they go out the door... at least a month under string tension.

[Berl Mendenhall]

Thanks for bringing this back up.  Fun read and informative.

[chungviolins]

"...upper shoulder protecting tape..."

 

----Serious question... where does one buy this material?

 

 

I use 3 M  tape, product name is 471.

 

http://www.interplas.com/3m-471-vinyl-tape-clear-p-3mvt-471-2tra?gdftrk=gdfV28538_a_7c3121_a_7c11842_a_7c3MVT_d_471_d_2TRA&gclid=CMCrgY2IlMICFQ4LMgodm0MAug

 

Koo Young

[Rick Hyslop]

Hey David.

 

Do you find that the aluminum saddle adds a great deal of "brightness" to the sound or that it will perform in pretty much in the manner that you would  expect to get from a regular fitted ebony saddle ?

 

EDIT:

 

A better question would be what are the tonal differences if any between this and a regular fitted saddle ? I just assumed some added brightness.

 

r.

[David Burgess]

Hey David.

 

Do you find that the aluminum saddle adds a great deal of "brightness" to the sound or that it will perform in pretty much in the manner that you would  expect to get from a regular fitted ebony saddle ?

 

EDIT:

 

A better question would be what are the tonal differences if any between this and a regular fitted saddle ? I just assumed some added brightness.

 

r.

I haven't noticed any tonal differences, but I haven't looked for them very aggressively.

 

I  ran one fiddle by Jeffrey with the aluminum thingamajig, then put in an ebony saddle and ran it by him again, and I don't think either of us noticed a (significant) difference in sound. Or if Jeffrey did, he didn't say anything.

[Berl Mendenhall]

I'd like to bring this thread up again, I've been doing some experimenting with saddles for a few years and believe it is an important part of final set up.  Until now I've mainly worked with different height.  I believe each fiddle has a certain height it works best at, has to do with the string angle over bridge.  Some fiddles work best with a really high saddle and some low.  I usually start with a high saddle and start lowering the edge the tail gut goes over and  notice changes.  I've had some that changed dramatically and some that changed hardly at all.  I'm looking for a full rich sound with lots of volume, not thin and weak.   

 

With David's method it's easy to move the saddle up and down by adding cork or thin piece of leather under the thing.  I made one of these and was messing with it and thought I'd bring the violin up to pitch with just the tail guy over the spruce sense I was getting ready to cut the mortise for the saddle anyway.  I thought I do this just to see if there was any noticeable difference in sound.  Boy was I surprised, the D and G sounded like a viola.  Big huge difference in sound.  I thought if this made that much difference maybe there was something that could be done with the way the saddle is fastened to the top.  Maybe there is something to the way the Roth's are half let into the spruce tops. Although I've not heard many Roth's that sounded very good at all.   Has anyone experimented with this or other methods.  I know the Hill's had a big saddle that went over the end and down part way over the end block.  Was that for tone or just for looks.

 

Don try taking the plastic things off your tail line and see if there is a difference in tone production.  I'm just messing with things trying to get all there is to get out of a fiddle.