Body modes as violin sound equalizer

[robertdo]

Thank you for the Bruch with Perlman ! Made my day.

I believe this kind of video tells much more about the player(soloist)/orchestra performance than about the soloist's violin. Only when Perlman or Repin or another player of this caliber plays the same concerto with a lesser known/unknow violin and people can hear the difference will I really think the violin made a huge difference

[Carl Stross]

I believe this kind of video tells much more about the player/orchestra performance than on the soloist violin. Only when Perlman or Repin or another player of this caliber plays the same concerto with a lesser known/unknow violin and people can hear the difference will I really think the violin made a huge difference

You might want to listen to the real thing here :

[Peter K-G]

Both interpretations are extremely beautiful. Will we ever know, in our lifetime, how a piece like this played on a modern violin, by violinst of theese caliber sounds.

They do choose Strads and DG's, because they can

[David Burgess]

When building a tree of informations I have been able to reduce the gathered informations to three people: Hutchins - Don Noon - Patrick Kreit  and In that order (Anders your informations falls under Don's)

Is there any chance you'd pick two out of the four?

 

 

  Will we ever know, in our lifetime, how a

piece like this played on a modern violin, by violinst of theese caliber

sounds.

Maybe you haven't done enough homework? 

[Carl Stross]

Will we ever know, in our lifetime, how a piece like this played on a modern violin, by violinst of theese caliber sounds.

Of course. Easy. I could plaster here 20 recordings with Kreisler, Thibaud, Enesco, Menuhin, Szering, all made on new violins. You won't tell the difference.

And by the way, I've already done that...

[Peter K-G]

Is there any chance you'd pick two out of the four?

 

 

Maybe you haven't done enough homework? 

 

The reason why my information sources is reduced to theese three named people is mostly becauce they have written understandable and practical information how to do things and get repeatable and predictable results. If you know things that I miss please tell  I know you have won competitions but that does not help me.

 

I try to do my homework, but it might well be that it's not enough. If some of the living masters plays on your violins, it does not help me either, if you don't tell me how to make such instruments.

[Peter K-G]

Of course. Easy. I could plaster here 20 recordings with Kreisler, Thibaud, Enesco, Menuhin, Szering, all made on new violins. You won't tell the difference.

And by the way, I've already done that...

 

You are absolutely right, I could not tell the difference. But they often choose their Cremonese when performing at special occasions.

Sorry I didn't understand what you ment by already done that?

[David Burgess]

The reason why my information sources is reduced to theese three named people is mostly becauce they have written understandable and practical information how to do things and get repeatable and predictable results. If you know things that I miss please tell  I know you have won competitions but that does not help me.

 

I try to do my homework, but it might well be that it's not enough. If some of the living masters plays on your violins, it does not help me either, if you don't tell me how to make such instruments.

Oh dear! You don't see the value in someone suggesting that you be careful and selective about your sources of information?

If Hutchins sounds cogent, does that mean that she's correct? That one shouldn't be difficult to answer, because there are quite a few of her instruments running around.

Hutchins was involved when violin research was in its infancy. Don and Anders (and a few others here) have been around, or involved in some of the latest high-level research.

 

And in my opinion, just about everything one needs to know to make a good sounding violin has been posted on Maestronet at one time or another over that last several years, with bits and pieces coming from various people. So what I'm suggesting is that it would be highly valuable to work on your sorting skills. If you don't see the value in that, oh well.

[Carl Stross]

But they often choose their Cremonese when performing at special occasions.

Of course. Special occasions demand a top Cremona. Like the occasion of launching one's career...

 

[Peter K-G]

Fantastic! The violin has such a dark and full tone

[Marty Kasprzyk]

Fantastic! The violin has such a dark and full tone

It also had good projection and was easily heard over the piano.

[Carl Stross]

Fantastic! The violin has such a dark and full tone

I'm glad you liked it - it's a fantastic violin.

[robertdo]

But you have to admit that the piano player has a very light touch...

[Carl Stross]

Fantastic! The violin has such a dark and full tone

This one is not too bad either :

Only that for some reason he didn't make enough of them

[gowan]

This one is not too bad either :

Only that for some reason he didn't make enough of them

Is she playing the "Harrison" Strad?  This recording was made in 1971 and she started her career using the Harrison Strad.

[David Burgess]

Of course. Special occasions demand a top Cremona. Like the occasion of launching one's career...

 

 

Midori switches violins twice (three different violins) during a performance:

 

[David Burgess]

Hmm, perhaps if I wait a few moments, it will post a third time.

[Carl Stross]

Is she playing the "Harrison" Strad?  This recording was made in 1971 and she started her career using the Harrison Strad.

Indeed she does.

[Peter K-G]

Two weeks of cold and really dry climate and here's what happened

 

Violin #4:

 

Weight down to 449 g

B1-  447 Hz

B1+ 494/536 Hz (~528 Hz with a rubber wedge between top and tailpiece)

 

Relative dB levels about the same.

Still dark sounding but more power and som nice sizzle

 

Violin #3

B1- 462

B1+ 555

 

B1+ relative dB level too high and dominant.

Violin still sounds good but is somewhat too bright, bridge hill moved towards past 4 KHz

Some difficulties with higher tones, bow slips a little.

 

 

 

 

[Peter K-G]

In topic Violin #5 there was some posts about Harris research: 

http://www.maestronet.com/forum/index.php?/topic/327921-violin-5-strad-body-modes/page-6#entry585090

 

Some thoughts that link's Harris thesis to this hypothesís (Body modes as violin sound equalizer):

 

We have found from experience that if this ‘balance factor’ is ~240, the balance between the top and bottom strings will be good. A balance factor of ~240 very probably places the wood resonance (body mode) peak well, relative to the air resonance peak, thus satisfying a recommendation of Hutchins [5]. A high balance factor (~253) will favor the lower strings, and a low balance factor (~227) will favor the upper strings.

 

 

http://www.violin.uk.com/research/1.%20On%20graduating%20the%20thickness%20of%20violin%20plates.%20VSA.pdf

 

By selecting the desired weight for the finished plates (adjust arch by tuning) and tuning the free plates you can acheive the desired plates (weight and modes)

 

I wanted to make a more Strad like sounding violin. Harris indicatiors is that lower balance factor favor the upper strings which might be mor Stradish. (Violin #5 balance factor; 235)

 

 

A heavier back would give a higher balance factor. Also looking at the stiffness factors It seems that Harris thesis leans towards DG sounding violins.

[Peter K-G]

Violin acoustics research is slow! It's over 1,5 years since I started this thread.

 

After you are able to control A0, B1- & B1+ frequencies, you want to control their dB levels as well.
This gets quite complicated, but it can be simplified to these thesis:

 

1. Weight of top and back plate (B1- top & B1+ back)
2. Graduation between C bouts in relation to wood properties and M5, B1 frequencies
3. Bass bar height in relation to M5, with and without bass bar (mostly B1-, minor B1+ dB level)
4. A0 dB level (very complicated), is influenced by flexibility of the whole body (related to B1- & B1+ frequencies and their dB level), A0 frequency in itself, f-hole size in relation to body volume and bass bar height (se 3.)

 

Conclution: All great Strads have wolfs under certain conditions. When you are passing threshold criterias, you will get wolfs. Which seams to be exactly what you want, if you want a great Strad sounding violin.

 

I might write an article

[Craig Tucker]

Of course. Special occasions demand a top Cremona. Like the occasion of launching one's career...

 

 

Thanks for that.

Truly hypnotic.

[Craig Tucker]

But you have to admit that the piano player has a very light touch...

 

;-)

[Don Noon]

Violin acoustics research is slow! It's over 1,5 years since I started this thread.

 

And I think you're still looking under the streetlight for keys that are far away in the dark.  If you can refute or explain away easily discovered problems, then carry on...

 

-Good violins do not have a specific set of signature modes or plate taptones

-Bad violins can have perfectly wonderful body modes and taptones

-Signature modes do absolutely nothing for the upper A string or anything on the E string... and isn't that where a Strad is supposed to stand out?

[Marty Kasprzyk]

And I think you're still looking under the streetlight for keys that are far away in the dark.  If you can refute or explain away easily discovered problems, then carry on...

 

-Good violins do not have a specific set of signature modes or plate taptones

-Bad violins can have perfectly wonderful body modes and taptones

-Signature modes do absolutely nothing for the upper A string or anything on the E string... and isn't that where a Strad is supposed to stand out?

Isn't  the amplitude of the A0  important too?