F-Hole sizes

[MAG-ic Probe]

I would like some advice on the various sizes of F-holes on violins. I know there is not a standard size and it seems most Luthiers decide their own, but what is the minimum and average size of f-holes you have encountered?

I get conflicting information and would appreciate som input.

I am trying to determine if a 5/16" (8mm) ball will fit into all violin f-Holes.

 

Thanks

[Michael Richwine]

Measured a few miscellaneous fiddles in my shop.  A good number wouldn't allow an 8mm ball, although it looks like most of the newer ones might. I'd be doubtful about 7mm on some of them, although I just measured, not having any 7mm rods or balls available.

[MikeC]

Would the helmholtz resonance be of any use in getting an optimum sound hole size?   Just something I've wondered about.  

[Addie]

Castle wrote some rules about size and tonal consequences.  But there’s so much fluff, it’s hard to follow what he is saying.  Somebody should synopsize his “rules."

 

Violin tone-peculiarities : Castle, Frederick

 

I think his basic rule is smaller raises tone pitch, larger lowers it.

[Oded Kishony]

Castle wrote some rules about size and tonal consequences.  But there’s so much fluff, it’s hard to follow what he is saying.  Somebody should synopsize his “rules."

 

Violin tone-peculiarities : Castle, Frederick

 

I think his basic rule is smaller raises tone pitch, larger lowers it.

 

Too bad it's just the opposite. A narrower F hole produces a lower (A0) pitch and a wider one a higher pitch

 

Oded

[Wolfjk]

 

I would like some advice on the various sizes of F-holes on violins. I know there is not a standard size and it seems most Luthiers decide their own, but what is the minimum and average size of f-holes you have encountered?

I get conflicting information and would appreciate som input.

I am trying to determine if a 5/16" (8mm) ball will fit into all violin f-Holes.

 

Thanks

Hi,

Mass and the structure of wood is the critical factor. Logic would dictate that a bigger hole leaves less mass, therefore favours the higher frequencies. A smaller F hole leaves mor wood and favours the lower ones. However the thickness of the plate, arching and the structure of the wood has to be considered.

[Addie]

Too bad it's just the opposite. A narrower F hole produces a lower (A0) pitch and a wider one a higher pitch

 

Oded

 

Keeping in mind I said "I think... “  

 

He says, in fact, “Enlarging exits raises tone pitch.” (p. 51)

 

He discusses the “exits” at length, from page 190 onwards.  Topics include size, obliqueness, and proximity to the edge.

[lyndon]

I'm still wondering why "magic-probe" would have so much interest in "f-holes" or is that just obvious????

[tzigane]

[Michael_Molnar]

I'm still wondering why "magic-probe" would have so much interest in "f-holes" or is that just obvious????

[Christopher Jacoby]

Make em large enough that you needn't fit the soundpost through the lower hole. 

[~ Ben Conover]

Guad are pretty long and open, Baldantoni are shorter than Amati.
For viola, Da Salo are very long.
Make some templets and try out the various choices.

[edi malinaric]

Castle wrote some rules about size and tonal consequences.  But there’s so much fluff, it’s hard to follow what he is saying.  Somebody should synopsize his “rules."

 

Violin tone-peculiarities : Castle, Frederick

 

I think his basic rule is smaller raises tone pitch, larger lowers it.

 

Hi Addie - my thoughts too - so I'm busy trying to work up (down?) an abridged version for my bookshelf.

 

cheers edi

[Michael_Molnar]

Castle wrote some rules about size and tonal consequences.  But there’s so much fluff, it’s hard to follow what he is saying.  Somebody should synopsize his “rules."

 

Violin tone-peculiarities : Castle, Frederick

 

I think his basic rule is smaller raises tone pitch, larger lowers it.

 

 

Too bad it's just the opposite. A narrower F hole produces a lower (A0) pitch and a wider one a higher pitch

 

Oded

I don't know if anyone else caught this. Anyhow, I just read this in Castle. He says nothing about tone pitch being controlled by the area of the "exits", namely f-holes. He says increasing the area of the f-holes increases the tone-power. 

[Addie]

Ahem... 

 

Page 51:

 

Rule VII: Enlarging exits, raises tone pitch.

Rule VIII: Reducing the area of the exits, lowers tone pitch.

 

 Thbt!!!  

[captainhook]

The obvious purpose of the original question had nothing to do with fiddle performance. It was asking about the minimum size of the lower eyes to find out how large a magnetic ball could be used with a Magic-Probe. Closest to an actual answer was post #2.

[Addie]

Yes, it was obvious, but other ideas do come up after the OP. First example would be post #3.

[LinkMan]

I would like some advice on the various sizes of F-holes on violins. I know there is not a standard size and it seems most Luthiers decide their own, but what is the minimum and average size of f-holes you have encountered?

I get conflicting information and would appreciate som input.

I am trying to determine if a 5/16" (8mm) ball will fit into all violin f-Holes.

 

Thanks

 

 

[Michael_Molnar]

Ahem... 

 

Page 51:

 Thbt!!!  

So, is your hero, Castle, wrong? 

[Addie]

One parameter, two effects. Simple, yes?

[Michael_Molnar]

One parameter, two effects. Simple, yes?

Ha! Right after where I stopped reading last night, I find this morning that Castle goes into great detail about how this phenomenon works. Good catch. I need to finish reading before commenting further and looking stupid. 

 

'Hook and Link can now have their thread back. 

[Addie]

One can get buried in the chaff while looking for the Castle wheat.      

[yawye]

On 3/28/2014 at 12:46 AM, Michael_Molnar said:

 

 

I don't know if anyone else caught this. Anyhow, I just read this in Castle. He says nothing about tone pitch being controlled by the area of the "exits", namely f-holes. He says increasing the area of the f-holes increases the tone-power. 

Recently, many scientific papers have suggested "increasing size of f-holes increasing the dB". 

[Michael_Molnar]

7 hours ago, yawye said:

Recently, many scientific papers have suggested "increasing size of f-holes increasing the dB". 

I just follow what I measure from posters of notable Strads such as the Viotti. I would not make them larger because of appearances.

[Michael Szyper]

8 hours ago, yawye said:

Recently, many scientific papers have suggested "increasing size of f-holes increasing the dB". 

Which studies? I remember one in the past which was cited a few times by newspapers. The main effect was an increase of airflow at the f hole edge and nothing more.