Jump to content
Maestronet Forums

Ex-Vieutemps del gesu---The best


zanjia
 Share

Recommended Posts

  • Replies 108
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Crazy things ....violins. Memmes,

   Essentially ,copying ,is how humans learn language, monkey see, monkey do.... But ya gotta find a good thing or person to copy.

 

 The deal with innovators is, we seldom look at their back story.

 

I think a factor in the "greatness" of Strad and DG instruments is due to around 300 years of age, playing, adjusting, etc.  It could be possible that 300 years from now some instruments made by contemporary makers will be as wonderful as the old Strads and DGs are today.  We do know that not all Strads are equal in quality, same for DG's instruments.  Does anyone have an educated guess as to what percentage of existing Strad instruments are "great"?  As for "copying" as done my modern makers, I'll bet that Strad spent a lot of time examining Amati instruments, and made a lot of violins under the influence of Amati.  Copying makes you pay attention to every minute detail.  Many makers describe their instruments as "inspired by" Strad, DG, etc.  but they aren't copies.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Welllll. The problem is that most people have been using only two models(Strad and DG) for so many years, yet the tone has not reached the height of perfection, neither have we been able to replicate Cremonese varnish. Maybe its time we innovate again. I don't mean change the whole style of violin playing, maybe just experiment a little more.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Bruce or anyone else.  Do you know what kind of graduations this violin has?  Has it been re-graduated at some time?  Does it have ribs that have been cut down?

 

Edit: This information may be available in the DG double volume book.  I don't know, I don't own the book.

There's a map of the graduations in the Jan 2011 Strad.  Unfortunately, it uses two colors to cover the range of 1 to 5 mm, so It's pretty hard to tell what the grad are to anything better than about .5 mm.  In general, it looks to me like the top is 3 - 3.5 mm, and the back has a large expanse of 4+ mm in the middle, down to 2.5-ish in the bouts. Terry Borman has the data. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The book gives the measurements as 5mm for the back, and the graduation seems pretty well ordered for Guarneri.  The top, 3mm at the thickest;  but around an average of 2.6mm in the lower lungs and 2.5mm in the upper.  The ribs are all over the place, but roughly 31mm lower, 32mm in the C-bouts, and 29mm at the neck.

 

I wasn't smart enough to go to the exhibit but everyone I know felt this violin was the best sounding of all.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think that this idea that violins "need to be played" or however it is nuanced, is simply an expression of the outrage of musicians frustrated by so many valuable instruments being out of reach because they are bunged in bank vaults by people who only want them as investment pieces. The ridiculousness of the notion is proven because no one complains about the quality of recently restored violins, that have been lost in the attic for a century-and-a-half coming back on the market through auction. Nor do dealers pay any less for them because of the risk of any associated stigma. I've never in seriousness heard of musicians detecting a reduced quality in these instruments, even if they allege the same in instruments that they know are behind steel or glass. (Although some will try anything for a discount).

- Menhuin *may* have played the Messiah when it was at the museum. The official line, of course is that didn't.

- Akiko Meyers eh? well she must have been pretty peed off when the Molitor price was atomised by the Lady Blunt - all that publicity about having the most expensive violin in the world. Make your own mind up: www.youtube.com/watch?v=6v7o3IvUEAE

So, what did it really sell for - B&F's $18m was the first time in modern history that a great violin was given a widely publicised value prior to the sale... (what other Strad's or del Gesu's prices are that commonly known?) of course, whatever it went for is entirely confidential, though there will always be the perception that the most expensive violin in the world is $18m. A nice bit of market manipulation, whatever the price...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have a pretty clear recollection about a Maestronet thread about this Del Gesu violin when it was first offered by Bein and Fushi for 18 mill, some rather disparaging things were said about it not being worth the price, and I thought the comments were that its the other Vieuxtemps that had the incredible sound and provenance or something. And I thought, but don't quote me, that the sound on this one was reported as less than one would expect for the price, does anyone else remember that discussion?? Needless to say, I would tend to value Anne Akiko Meyers impression of the tone over some anon poster on maestronet!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

- as I understand things from heresay amongst the London scene- , the last owner is actually a very significant benefactor of music in the UK and the instrument was anything but "kept in a Safe", it was just his prized posession, but not sometng that he made available to professional musicians. However his personal conviction, which appears to have been born out as true, was that it was far and above the finest violin in the world. He wanted to dictate the price, and felt that the market valued the instrument at less than he would accept- and being very rich anyway, he could bide his time until a decent offer reached the table.

That's probably the basis upon which B&F entered into a sale agreement which broke all the conventions of high-end selling, by making an eye-watering price public as part of the sales process. Whether they sold it or not, the effect would have been to educate the buying public to the idea that recalibrated Cremonese prices to a new upper price point, 50 % higher than the hypothetical £10m Valuation on the Messiah that dominated thinking over the last decade. This may have been entirely speculative, and there may have been slim hope of making a sale, but the inflation between Beares's valuation of the Messiah and that of the Vieuxtemps was matched by the rise from roughly £6m to £9.4 of the Lady Blunt between being bought by the Nippon Foundation and unexpectedly coming onto the market. Hence, the Vieuxtemps price was suddenly substantiated by comparables - something that was probably considered impossible when it came on the market, and a valuation in the region of $18m was suddenly realistic.

We don't know what price it was eventually sold for, but the concept of the $18m violin is now hard-wired into our perceptions of the market. Such re-valuations are effective inflationary practices with effects across the whole market. More bad news for musicians.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
 Share

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.




×
×
  • Create New...