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Two Threads Removed


Jeffrey Holmes
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Hi all;

I regret having felt the need to remove two threads this evening.

One (Clavichords) quickly deteriorated.

The other (Manfo's violin) was a difficult decision. In the end, I felt a more appropriate place for it is in the what's on my bench thread, though I know many hate searching for things there...

Not a perfect decision.

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Hi all;

I regret having felt the need to remove two threads this evening.

One (Clavichords) quickly deteriorated.

The other (Manfo's violin) was a difficult decision. In the end, I felt a more appropriate place for it is in the what's on my bench thread, though I know many hate searching for things there...

Not a perfect decision.

But a decision all the same, and one that is always appreciated.

Lead on!

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Jeffrey, I am somewhat surperised that you removed MANFIO's thread of his latest creation. His work is of great inspiration for beginners like me and a pleasure to view. A picture in the " my bench" thread just doesn't do it justice - also the work there is normally of work in progress.

Cheers, Peter

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I agree. Things get lost in a long thread. Fine for quick shots of "look what I'm working on!"... but why not let a detailed thread on a fine finished instrument stand on its own? Technically this is not on the bench any longer. I personally haven't posted or read through the "what's on my bench" thread. I have considered it but by the time I get to it its usually too long to work my way through. A single thread on a single instrument allows clear discussions that wont get lost among the multitude of comments on all the other projects in the mega-post. I was clear to me Manfio's finished violin deserved its own thread.

I'm disappointed. :mellow: Seems a little harsh to me...

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?Ditto...

MK are a bad idea imo, its cattle call crap that makes it very difficult to find individuals work. One of the main reason's I make post about my work is it makes it a very easy way to "name" something, a post title, then years later be able to find that post via a google search. This way I can catalog my stuff online for people to see. If I MK4,5,6 it, I have to direct someone to the page and it just over complicates things

I really feel this issue should be hashed out, I pose the question

"Can luthiers post individual post's of their work or not?"

If not, that would dramatically curtail my desire to be involved. Not that anyone gives a rats ass, but of course I do.

I think that if someone wants to have their work in mk post's, then that is fine, On the other hand I really feel that folks should have the ability to make their own post for thier work.

Harsh isn't really the word, I think Jeffery is trying to be fair. The question is who decided that crappy cattle call brief shots of peoples new work suddenly was now the new way to show off work?

It's like I see Melvins work and I think, man I want more shots, more angles, just more. And I know that Melvin is quite well known and does not want to come accoss as "agrandizing" but then again who is the total AHOLE who imparted these negative vibes into this? When I first came here people were posting pics and individual post's of their work and it was no problem. IT WAS THE ENTIRE REASON I STARTED COMING HERE AND WAS AN INSPIRATION FOR ME TO SEE WORK....then suddenly this pompous "let's make luthiers feel like money grubbing attention whores" attitude started slipping in, and now what this crappy negative vibe now steers the ship and well esteemed members like Manfio are made to feel like they are over stepping their bounds?

I don't like it at all.

No offense to wolftone, but the attitude inserted into the "why didn't you post it with everyone else" really says' it all

Why, because its a kick ass fiddle made by a super cool guy, who has shared tons of knowledge and me and lots of other people like to stare at it and study the work in detail, and some like to be able to find it easy, and we like to share it with others, thus the finding it easy, and ya maybe we want people to say "hey man, good job"....and you know what there is absolutely nothing wrong with that and damn you to the people who have made people feel that way....it is just a horible attitude to have twords people who are artist trying to share their work with the world.

Artistic endevors should be encouraged, not vilified. I feel very emotionaly upset for Manfio, as if he did something wrong. He did nothing wrong and I think it should be put back IMO

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jezzupe, your words are exactly how I feel. I would love to see threads presenting instruments from the many makers who participate(d) here as there would be so much to learn from it.

Maestronet was a fun place to share information in the past, but not any more - just too much insult going on.

Cheers, Peter

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As Jeffrey said, it was a "difficult decision". Unfortunately, anybody who might perceive justification for that decision has already been branded a "total AHOLE" in advance.

But hey, that's me. So here's a thought - if Melvin, for instance, could be forced at the point of a gun to deluge us with photo essays of each new example of his work, I for one would be learning something new every time. On the other hand...

Nevermind....

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I think Jefferey did the right thing. And I appreciate the difficulty of making this decision.

The forum is here to encourage discussion. Where to draw the line between that and commercial promotion is tricky. There is no shortage of opportunities for folks to post photos of their instruments and promote their work on web sites, Facebook etc.and I enjoy seeing new work, but I think there should be limits on what is posted on Maestronet. Setting those limits is tricky and I don't envy Jefferey for this responsibility. I sure wouldn't want to have to make the call.

Oded

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I, for one, was looking forward to learning what a clavichord sounds like, since I have never heard one before. Since we aren’t told the reason, I can only hope that impertinent comments on any OP’s mental health and/or social security situations are not an easy way to get someone’s thread erased, since I feel that that would not be a good precedent

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I agree with jezzupe concerning Manfio. I never once felt that his posts were commercial promotion, and he has been very open with information. Concerning the clavichord thread, (which I found quite interesting, while it stayed on topic), I was thoroughly disgusted at the way the OP was treated by some of the posters, who seemed only to post to try to irritate and bully. I am visiting here less and less now as this place is starting to seem a bit like an 8th grade lunchroom concerning the tone of some of the threads.

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I am an "outsider" of the violin community, more of an appreciator of the art of violin making, so threads such as Manfio's are very inspiring to me. I do not feel they where for egotistical purposes, neither marketing as luthiers are not buyers, and they are very educating as it gives people a chance to ask more specific questions regarding one's techniques, and Manfio has been very forthcoming with information, but what do I know?

The stressed out posters, I just feel sorry for them, sometimes it could be just the nicest guy in the world that had the week of hell and it showed in his posts, sometimes it is just an unfortunate habit, which the poster himself suffers more, I just jump to the next post, and before I get mad at "the forum" I remember all the great inspiring people that are here, and they are many.

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I'm with Michael, Jacob, Carlo, John, and even new member(nice to hear from a new voice that isn't full of venom). Isn't there a way to ban or at least limit people who only post to disrupt, or downright bully as Michael said? Some of us tried to get the post on track and police it ourself, apparently to no avail.

Ken

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I wasn't happy at all to read some posts by a couple of individuals on the clavichord thread, either. Some people seem to have nothing to contribute other than to spread bad feelings among us.

Anyway, I respect your judgement, Jeff. You do have a tough job, but you manage it so well. Please don't retire too soon.

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Sorry if my posts were taken as commercial promotion, I was more interested in the negative aspects of my violin since this was the first I made in 8 years.

I received many valuable information here, and knew many cool guys, some even in person.

I am not sure if I am going to post here in the future.

Thank you all!

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Sorry to hear that Manfio. If this was an auction site or something I could see that commercialism or self promotion might be frowned upon. Although when you think about it, there might be more of that. But I would guess most here have enough to do to sell their own stuff. Looking at cool violins, violas, cellos, that big de gamba thing on what's on your bench, and even clavichords is what we do for inspiration. If someone whines, because they percieve some kind of threat, maybe they need to up their game. Or change it.

Ken

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We need to consider the time Jeffrey H. has to deal with these situations. Clavichord: I agree that the op shouldn't have had to deal with "bullying" (In part because of his past behavior, but that is a separate subject and doesn't justify the negative responses). But to selectively pull out posts (which the moderator does at times) requires him to be very vigilant and he just doesn't have the time (I would imagine) to deal with a high maintenance thread. I saw it go negative, but not sure what was in there right at the end that made it go away. Manfio's thread: I saw it go "slightly" negative, but it didn't seem to bad, figure it was removed for something I didn't get at the end. Either way, I respect that JH's job is not easy with the time constraints he has, and he had good reason for removing them. It sounds like a more detailed explaination is needed when he gets a chance. jeff

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Jeffrey, thanks for being willing to be the moderator. I bet there are plenty of decisions that come up where you’re damned if you do, and damned if you don’t.

Carlo, you’re way too mellow! You need more stress in your life! :lol:

Manfio, come on, man. ^_^ I’ve had things of mine deleted too. Can you put the photos up on your web site so people who want to see them will know where to find them?

Maybe some other people can also post links to photo-essay type things on their websites or Photobucket.

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I believe that posting on this forum, in part for commercial purposes, is fine and is as it should be. It should be part of the reason for the forum- to promote violin making on every level. Many, if not most, participants in the forum are here to some degree to help in promoting themselves and their work, including myself and Jeffrey. Marketing/promotion is one of the key ingredients to business success, and the Maestronet forums provide an opportunity for that, as well as a place for sharing ideas and solutions among professionals, amateurs, and the curious.

I think the decision to remove Manfio's thread is wrong. Such threads, while definitely self-promoting, also are what many viewers want to see and learn from. It's not like they (the threads) are too frequent or 'stay at the top' too long. In other words, I feel they do more good than they do harm- if garnering a little self-promotion can be considered harm.

I would be in favor of a re-consideration- and thanks, Jeffrey, for doing the difficult and oftentimes thankless job you do.

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I will miss Manfio's posts. I hope that he reconsiders.

As for the removal of the threads, I think that we should all consider-if we haven't already-that the 1st Amendment doesn't apply here, and the board isn't attempting to be a democracy. On a Internet board, you wish that adults could act like adults and respect each other, but perhaps this is a microcosm of society as a whole. We aren't being as nice to each other as we used to be.

We have a Benevolant (sp) Dictatorship and Jeffrey performs a difficult task, uncompensated I am sure, and we should be thankful for it.

I have been terse with a certain poster, in the past, so I understand the frustration...

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