Need Someone Who Reads German

[GoldenPlate]

Could anyone who reads German tell me what the certificate says for this violin particularly?

Obviously google translation won't work in this case..

Huge thanks in advance!

http://tarisio.com/pages/auction/auction_item.php?csid=2197766144&cpid=3176529920

[martin swan]

It looks like a couple of bills (one at least for repairs), not a certificate, but Jacob would do a better job of deciphering it ....

[chrissweden]

Very hard to read (old typewriting)

My best guess is that it's a bill for the purchase of the violin. 58 was a lot of money at that time...

[jacobsaunders]

It`s the old orthography, usual at the time, known as “Kurrent”. The long one is a detailed recipt for the repair of a violin “Joseph Guarnerius” & a bow rehair etc. The short one, at first look is something like:

Rechnung für Herrn F von Siller

für Ankauf einem itl. Geige

Joseph Guanerius

als Profision --hc-t f

b-sch—ist

Oswald Möckel

If it`s important to you, you can work it out yourself (time consuming) with this alphabet:

http://de.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Datei:Deutsche_Kurrentschrift.svg&filetimestamp=20100330104110

I`m not quite sure how Tarisio make a "bill of sale" out of it

[lyndon]

the price is in marks, not dollars

[bean_fidhleir]

To extend(?) Jacob's reading

Profision __hretnis

[match]

Für Ankauf einer itl. Geige

Joseph Guarnerius

als Profision erhalten Mk 50

bescheinigt

Oswald Möckel

[lyndon]

OK so we all know now what it says in German, i thought the OP original question was what does it say in English???? i know weve had two german speakers post here................

[match]

For purchase of an Italian violin

Joseph Guarnerius

received as commision: Mk 50

certified

Oswald Moeckel

I guess Jacobs translation would be better

[lyndon]

thanks match, sorry to be so rude, thats what we needed

[jacobsaunders]

For purchase of an Italian violin

Joseph Guarnerius

received as commision: Mk 50

certified

Oswald Moeckel

I guess Jacobs translation would be better

I don`t think so, I would compleately agree with your translation.

The word "certified" is a bit confusing, but so is "Bescheinigt" in the German original. I would certainly presume that he means that he "certified" (Bescheinigt) that he has recieved 50 Marks, not that the fiddle is a Guarnerius

[match]

Yes it´s a bill about his comission. 50 Mk 1892 = value today about 390,- USD. Either the comission rates used to be much lower than today or it wasn´t a really expensive fiddle in1892.

[lyndon]

in 1892 $20 would buy you a fiddle worth about $10,000 today, how much was 50mk in $$$???

[Blank face]

There's no sense in calculating with old exchange rates. I have an old example of the german "Fuchs-Taxe", a kind of red book, from the early 20th century. A simple italian violin, fom Milan, for example, is prized in this book with 300-500 Mark. Probably the commission was 10%, the full selling would be this 500. In this way, we can make a guess, what Möckel thought about this violin, but not about its value today.