Joseph Liu Posted October 31, 2012 Report Share Posted October 31, 2012 Hi everyone, A friend of mine told me that her friend's family recently bought the Sleeping Beauty Montagnana. How do I know if they bought the real deal without looking at the instrument? I am not planning on asking my friend to ask her friend the transaction/financial details. The only thing I know is that they could afford it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will L Posted October 31, 2012 Report Share Posted October 31, 2012 Tell your friend you would love to have the measurements and a nice photo, because you have always wanted to make a copy of it. Gosh, I sound like "Dear Abby"! :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tets Kimura Posted October 31, 2012 Report Share Posted October 31, 2012 I know it was for sale recently. I also heard that it has already been sold, but I don't know who is the new owner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joerobson Posted October 31, 2012 Report Share Posted October 31, 2012 Joseph, We are all holding our breath. Any chance that you will see the cello soon? Joe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joseph Liu Posted October 31, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 31, 2012 Since I am not a personal friend of this family, I probably won't be seeing the pictures or the cello in person anytime soon. But, hearing from Tets that the cello was recently sold gave me a pretty good sense that this family bought it. Maybe I could ask to see it when I visit Taiwan next time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Edwards Posted October 31, 2012 Report Share Posted October 31, 2012 It's not going to be long until we can say the majority of Italian Antiques are owned by Asians , I have heard Taiwan already has a sizeable collection Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joerobson Posted October 31, 2012 Report Share Posted October 31, 2012 It's not going to be long until we can say the majority of Italian Antiques are owned by Asians , I have heard Taiwan already has a sizeable collection Adam, This is a comment I hear a lot. Not particularly that the great instruments come to rest in collections, but that once in those collections they disappear. It is more difficult for makers to see these instruments than it is for players to enjoy them. Let's face it...it takes significant wealth to own even one great instrument. No suprise that people want to protect their investment. However it concerns me that so few of the people I work with have a good sense of what a good Cremonese [or other classic] instrument actually looks like....let alone have the chance to study them in any serious way. A suggestion: Good instruments are accessible when they are for sale. Develop a good relationship with a shop near you. [A bit of pro bono work will go a long way to sealing this relationship.] Let them know that you would like to know what passes through the shop. When you get the chance, take your time....likely you will not see this instrument again. on we go, Joe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Carlson Posted November 1, 2012 Report Share Posted November 1, 2012 When you get the chance, take your time....likely you will not see this instrument again. on we go, Joe The 'Sleeping Beauty' was the first Montagnana I had ever seen. It was 1972 in Philadelphia, that's right, 40 years ago!!! The second time I saw it was 1997, 25 years later, at the Montagnana exhibition in Lendinara!!! It made a lasting impression on me and I was happy to have been able to photograph it on that first occasion. Orlando Cole was a real gentleman. Lousy photographs. Bruce Adam, here's the other side of the head that is not in the book. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skiingfiddler Posted November 1, 2012 Report Share Posted November 1, 2012 The 'Sleeping Beauty' was the first Montagnana I had ever seen. It was 1972 in Philadelphia, that's right, 40 years ago!!! The second time I saw it was 1997, 25 years later, at the Montagnana exhibition in Lendinara!!! It made a lasting impression on me and I was happy to have been able to photograph it on that first occasion. Orlando Cole was a real gentleman. Lousy photographs. Bruce Adam, here's the other side of the head that is not in the book. There are great color photos of the Sleeping Beauty in Domenico Montagnana, Lauter in Venetia, 1998, from the 1997 exhibition in Lendinara. Bruce, I've always enjoyed black and white photos of fiddles -- whether yours, above, or Hamma's -- in representing the texture of the instrument's surfaces perhaps more accurately than color photos do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joerobson Posted November 1, 2012 Report Share Posted November 1, 2012 Bruce, How do the '97 photographs compare to your memory of the color? Joe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Carlson Posted November 1, 2012 Report Share Posted November 1, 2012 Bruce, How do the '97 photographs compare to your memory of the color? Joe Hi Joe, When we shot the photographs for the 1997 catalogue the idea was to have a more saturated color transparency to work with, but in the end they were probably not lightened up enough before they went to the printer. If your initial color transparencies are washed out, you risk losing detail and it is almost impossible to correct the colors by darkening. I remember the cello as being somewhat lighter in color to the printed pages of the catalogue but herein lies the real problem. Change your lighting conditions and the colors change accordingly. Where the varnish was thickest you got close to brownish red-orange and where worn more of a rich golden yellow-orange and where thin to golden yellow. It differs from the Goffrillers I have seen in that the ground is not as reddish or pinkish on the wood. Bruce Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~ Ben Conover Posted November 1, 2012 Report Share Posted November 1, 2012 How does the Sleeping Beaut handle for players ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Carlson Posted November 1, 2012 Report Share Posted November 1, 2012 How does the Sleeping Beaut handle for players ? Orlando Cole played it for a lifetime and others who play Montagnana have made his instruments a household word. There was an article on Orlando Cole in 'the Strad' when he died in 2010. I've heard it played by his son David Cole who is also a fine cellist and his only complaint is some wolf notes but most instruments have some to a greater or lesser extent. Montagnanas are or have been played by Emmanuel Feuermann, Frans Helmerson, Martin Lovett, Stephen Isserlis, Gabor Reito, Peter Reito, Mischa Maisky, Yo Yo Ma, Stephen Kates, Ralph Kirschbaum, Alfredo Piatti, Samuel Mayes, Aldo Parisot, Gregor Piatigorsky, Nathaniel Rosen, Boris Pergamenschikov, Maurice Eisenberg, Evan Drachman, Lynn Harrel, Alfred Wallenstein etc. The form is cumbersome and bowing clearance can be a problem but they're worth learning to cope with. Feuermann, on the other hand, gave up his Montagnana for a 'forma B piccola' Stradivari cello c.1730. Bruce Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Urban Luthier Posted November 2, 2012 Report Share Posted November 2, 2012 . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~ Ben Conover Posted November 2, 2012 Report Share Posted November 2, 2012 Bruce, thanks again for the info. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joerobson Posted November 2, 2012 Report Share Posted November 2, 2012 Hi Joe, I remember the cello as being somewhat lighter in color to the printed pages of the catalogue but herein lies the real problem. Change your lighting conditions and the colors change accordingly. Where the varnish was thickest you got close to brownish red-orange and where worn more of a rich golden yellow-orange and where thin to golden yellow. It differs from the Goffrillers I have seen in that the ground is not as reddish or pinkish on the wood. Bruce Bruce, Thanks...Always good to have a reality check when you look at photographs. I had Yoyo Ma's Montagnana in my hands for an hour or so several years ago [i can play it back in my mind like a slide show]...none of the red brown you see in the Sleeping Beauty, but all the browns and golds...with a distinct greenish cast to the ground....powerful ground. I had the good fortune to see 3 Gofrillers cellos all together one day last year...incredible varnish...humbling....the ground on each had a purple/gray cast to it in good light.... Joe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oded Kishony Posted November 2, 2012 Report Share Posted November 2, 2012 Bruce, Thanks...Always good to have a reality check when you look at photographs. I had Yoyo Ma's Montagnana in my hands for an hour or so several years ago [i can play it back in my mind like a slide show]...none of the red brown you see in the Sleeping Beauty, but all the browns and golds...with a distinct greenish cast to the ground....powerful ground. I had the good fortune to see 3 Gofrillers cellos all together one day last year...incredible varnish...humbling....the ground on each had a purple/gray cast to it in good light.... Joe Art literature often mentioned a 'toned ground' meaning a ground coat with a particular 'neutral' color that enhances the colors to follow. Umber is often cited, but I wonder what principles one should consider when thinking about using a 'toned' ground? Oded Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joerobson Posted November 3, 2012 Report Share Posted November 3, 2012 Art literature often mentioned a 'toned ground' meaning a ground coat with a particular 'neutral' color that enhances the colors to follow. Umber is often cited, but I wonder what principles one should consider when thinking about using a 'toned' ground? Oded Oded, I take the look and see method. The wood....toned or not.... will only accept a certain small range of colors....the rest will look immediately bad. We really don't get to dictate the color unless we use an opaque coating. Let the wood lead. Put a little varnish on the sample...and look and see. I am not being facetious. It sounds too simple, but it works. Joe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joseph Liu Posted November 3, 2012 Author Report Share Posted November 3, 2012 Thanks for the pictures, Bruce! I was just wondering. Does anyone know why the cello is called the Sleeping Beauty? Most important instruments have former owner's names. I hope Disney's Sleeping Beauty was not one of the ex owners of the cello. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cbouts Posted November 3, 2012 Report Share Posted November 3, 2012 It was in a castle unused for over 100 years before the 1930's when it was brought to light and put to use thus its nickname. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Carlson Posted November 4, 2012 Report Share Posted November 4, 2012 I hope Disney's Sleeping Beauty was not one of the ex owners of the cello. Let's give credit to Charles Perrault for having recorded the fairy tale in a book from a folk tales that had been passed on by word of mouth. The brothers Grimm did a similar work for tales that they collected in Germany and elsewhere. The real origin of many of these stories concealed by time. Disney didn't invent anything but his animated cartoons are classics. Bruce Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alma Posted November 4, 2012 Report Share Posted November 4, 2012 You can see the Sleeping Beauty played by Orlando Cole on the videos he made with Lynn Harrell for SHAR, "Exploring the Bow Arm." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.