Adhesive

[UG Fiddlesmith]

I was recently introduced to a new adhesive which is supposed to work well with wood (or other materials) which may have some oil content to it. It is LOCTITE 330 and is described as an Elastomeric Modified Methacrylate and is used in conjunction with an activator (Spray). It concerns me that being elastic would it have a tendancy to creep under constant tension. My intended use was to glue pernambuco bows. Does anyone have any experience with the product?

[puckfandan]

All I can say is that if you ever use anything on wood besides hyde glue nobody in the future will ever be able to work on the repair... although my profession was engineering, grew up in a wood shop and have always had one and have never seen a good replacement for hot hyde glue when it comes to wood...unless maybe you are a boat builder

[lyndon]

you cant get a strong joint with hide glue on pernambuco, because its too oily, super glue and epoxy are the modern options, usually

[Conor Russell]

Lots of makers still glue the tip face on with animal glue, and they can hold for a couple of hundred years. The wood must be degreased first.

To repair broken heads most use epoxy or superglue or both. I've seen old repairs, done with hide glue I'm sure, that haven't given up.

[puckfandan]

you cant get a strong joint with hide glue on pernambuco, because its too oily, super glue and epoxy are the modern options, usually

Lyndon, what has been used on pernambuco historically?

[UG Fiddlesmith]

I recently tried a head repair with hide glue and the joint failed while I began the spline kerf. I didn't de-oil the joint and I am not sure what to use to de-oil pernambuco. Maybe that is the reason for hide glue failure. I reglued the head with epoxy, splined the break and it is still holding. I guess no one else has tried LOCTITE 330 DEPEND; it doesn't require mixing, is up to handling strength in one minute and full strength in 4-24 hours (so says the instruction sheet)

[danielmiller]

Little late on this thread, but thought I would give my two cents.

As far as the Loctite 330 is concerned, I guess time will tell if it holds. If the bow isn't worth much, then I'd say feel free to experiment. I have used a black Loctite CA glue that "flexes" on tip plates, but they ended up falling off. Whatever is used to cause the glue to flex also weakens the overall bond. If this is the same glue, I'd say steer clear of it.

I personally use what I know works which for me is either G2 epoxy, as long as it is mixed properly, or a fresh industrial strength CA glue. G2 is not really reversible. With enough heat applied, it could come apart but can't really be cleaned off. CA glue is reversible and can be cleaned off with acetone. However, I don't know why anyone would want to reverse a head spline.

I like the idea of using hide glue, but between climate issues and constant bow hair tension I don't think I would ever use it. For me there is too much risk of failure, which I can't personally afford to have in this business.

Good luck and let us all know how it holds up.

[David Burgess]

Loctite products have a pretty solid track record for keeping parts from falling off vibrating Harleys, sealing pressurized supercharger cases, and some other automotive-type applications. I was severely underimpressed with some of their other automotive products, like a liquid "thread restorer". They've also ventured into surgical adhesives, although I don't have any info on how that's working out.

As far as I know, high-strength wood bonding has never been their major game (much less so than automotive products. and probably less profit potential than surgical adhesives), and I'll guess that wood bonding doesn't have enough profit potential to be more than a minor interest. As far as lower strength bonding goes, they do market a construction adhesive which I've used a few times, and it has some good qualities.

What I might be trying to say here is approach it with extreme caution.

That said, I too am interested in how their bonding products hold up in the fiddlegeek world.

[Oded Kishony]

Has anyone tried using casein glue to repair bows? It certainly has a long history of success with wood. Many painting panels that were glued with casein in the middle ages (5th-15th c.) have remained, and are till intact. It's a really strong glue and far easier to work with than hide glue.

BTW Locktite makes a solvent that removes CA glue without harming a typical violin varnish called XNMS clean up solvent

Oded

[John Harte]

BTW Locktite makes a solvent that removes CA glue without harming a typical violin varnish called XNMS clean up solvent

Nitromethane also works well and is less volatile than acetone.

See: http://en.wikipedia....ki/Nitromethane

Klotz is the brand I am familiar with. It's not overly expensive but the smallest purchase quantity in the U.S. seems to be 1 gallon.

See: http://www.klotzware...?productID=8836

[Oded Kishony]

I believe that the locktite solvent is nitromethane but I don't know that for a fact.

I see various nitro methane additives but they are blended with motor oil.

I spotted this product which claims to be pure nitro methane.

perhaps someone can verify that the locktite product "XNMS" is ins fact nitro methane.

I found it pretty effective at removing ca glue especially if it's carefully warmed a bit.

Hazardous because it's highly flammable

Oded