stephen maloney Posted October 11, 2012 Report Share Posted October 11, 2012 So what's the verdict - mid 20th century made using early to mid-19th c. wood? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ratcliffiddles Posted October 11, 2012 Report Share Posted October 11, 2012 So what's the verdict - mid 20th century made using early to mid-19th c. wood? Don't think so, mid 19th century Mittenwald was always my opinion, very likely re-varnished, or at least seriously "got at" (as many were due to their unstable varnish). That was what I thought before the dendro, and the tests seemed to fit exceedingly well with that. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stephen maloney Posted October 11, 2012 Report Share Posted October 11, 2012 Don't think so, mid 19th century Mittenwald was always my opinion, very likely re-varnished, or at least seriously "got at" (as many were due to their unstable varnish). That was what I thought before the dendro, and the tests seemed to fit exceedingly well with that. I apologise if I offended you by my use of the controversial term "dandruffchronology". Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Wolfjk Posted October 12, 2012 Report Share Posted October 12, 2012 Hi, Here is a squashed image of part of the front. Doing this always shows precisely where the joint (if any) is located, and there isn't one.In any case, it is simply inconceivable to obtain the very strong results we did from the dendrochronological tests across the whole width had we (Micha Beuting, the others and myself) "missed" a joint . Thanks for the explanation. I can see from the photo that there is no joint. I mistook the second line from the left for a joint on the first photo Quote Link to post Share on other sites
vlado Posted October 12, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 12, 2012 Has someone attributed this violin to be a Francesco Stradivari? Very good question! Is there anyone here with such experience? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
vlado Posted October 12, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 12, 2012 I am no expert and won' t say anything about the violin, but the fact that the tree was cut 200 years (or less) ago doesn't mean the violin was made at that time with that particular piece of wood. I agree. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
vlado Posted October 12, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 12, 2012 The numerous parallel scratches on the back - I wonder what would have caused that "naturally"? ...dare i say, 20th century sandpaper? Stephen, It is very difficult to do with the image. Incisions are looking surface. Not under varnish. They are not natural. In all probability the suitcase inside, or even bow. Yes, they are probably made ​​in the 20th century. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
vlado Posted October 12, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 12, 2012 is there anyway of knowing if the corner blocks and end blocks are original? maybe you could get carbon dating on a small sample from an end block? Four side blocks and the lower block are original. Since the revised button above violin back, I'm not sure that the upper block of the original. How would you get the carbon dating? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
vlado Posted October 12, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 12, 2012 that would be quite pricy. But Vlado knows that the violin is at least 100 yrs old... robertdo, I know that my violin for 40 years. Everything else is tradition, by word of mouth. Interesting are estimated over the internet, which I have stated in post # 32nd. These answers to the assessment of my violin, based on the images, have made major auction houses and their appraisers. Is not that strange? At least a little strange? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
vlado Posted October 12, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 12, 2012 Kind of looks lacquered surface. Bright spots: The top coat does not exist, only primer Dark spots: In some places the returned layer of paint in some places it is degraded. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stephen maloney Posted October 12, 2012 Report Share Posted October 12, 2012 Stephen, It is very difficult to do with the image. Incisions are looking surface. Not under varnish. They are not natural. In all probability the suitcase inside, or even bow. Yes, they are probably made ​​in the 20th century. I agree that they are not natural; they are man-made. Not from the violin case - there is not enough room inside the case to make such long, straight (not random), and parallel scratches. Whatever dings or dents the bow might make would be on the top, not the back; how does the bow touch the back when the violin is in the case? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
puckfandan Posted October 12, 2012 Report Share Posted October 12, 2012 I am amazed at how many ebay violins I see that are laying on concrete or asphalt, and even laying on brick steps! what the hell are these people thinking???? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stephen maloney Posted October 12, 2012 Report Share Posted October 12, 2012 Hahaha! I like the ones where they are resting on a bed of flowers, etc. Very "natural". Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Oded Kishony Posted October 12, 2012 Report Share Posted October 12, 2012 I agree that they are not natural; they are man-made. Not from the violin case - there is not enough room inside the case to make such long, straight (not random), and parallel scratches. Whatever dings or dents the bow might make would be on the top, not the back; how does the bow touch the back when the violin is in the case? often the violin is held against the belly and either strummed or just at rest-a belt buckle or various buttons etc can cause such scratching on the back. Oded Quote Link to post Share on other sites
vlado Posted October 15, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 15, 2012 Here's a few, highlighted in green. I find them curiously right-handed, and have seen similar patterns in forged antiques where a stain is darker in areas where there were similar efforts at simulated wear pattern using a scraper type tool or low grit sandpaper in single passes. I could be mistaken; it is merely intriguing to see so many perfectly straight lines in a uniform directional pattern. For comparison: Marked lines look like damage violin. Look at the picture with the arrow keys. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
vlado Posted October 15, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 15, 2012 Another comparison with a more sharper picture. What do you think? Is sandpaper or other damage. or Quote Link to post Share on other sites
robertdo Posted October 15, 2012 Report Share Posted October 15, 2012 that would be a sandpaper with not much sand on it... Something sharp that you just quickly pass on the wood, like when you want to cross out with a pen? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stephen maloney Posted October 15, 2012 Report Share Posted October 15, 2012 True, although I've seen some grits where the grains were really far apart. I find it interesting also that even the "worming" is at the same angle as the artificial (whatever tool produced them) scratches. Oded's observation about buttons is interesting, but I don't think it applies here. How would the marks would be produced in that way given either the direction or linear consistency of the marks? They would be more random, less linear and less consistent. It's very hard to fake random; people tend to do things symmetrically. I think it's just bad antiquing, sorry. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
La Folia Posted October 15, 2012 Report Share Posted October 15, 2012 that would be a sandpaper with not much sand on it... It looks like it was sanded with coarse sandpaper, then most of the marks were removed with finer sandpaper. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Wolfjk Posted October 15, 2012 Report Share Posted October 15, 2012 The Messiah has similar scratches under the varnish! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stephen maloney Posted October 15, 2012 Report Share Posted October 15, 2012 You may have unlocked the mystery, Wolfie...could this "fine", er, "violin" be...Messiah's long lost brother? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
puckfandan Posted October 16, 2012 Report Share Posted October 16, 2012 The few violins that I have ended up with having similar scratches have all had varnish work. Scratches usually will only be very slightly darker unless the sanding scratched through the ground and allowed the varnish to "stain" the scratch. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ufuk guler Posted October 16, 2012 Report Share Posted October 16, 2012 is it possible to understand the wood is europan or eastern spruce? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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