Skreechee Posted August 30, 2012 Report Share Posted August 30, 2012 Because there are so many scammers out there. Scammer buyers I mean. When they buy your things they expect them to be sent across the world as cheap as possible. Well in this country (UK) it now costs near enough £100 to do it properly. I buy big boxes and pack really well. Then when posting I always send them insured and registered but the last few I sold the buyers all asked me to send them the cheapest way or they would not go through with the sale as they thought my shipping prices too high. So stupidly enough I did. They all paid through paypal. Then a month later they are on to me about not recieving the goods and made a claim with paypal who gave them their money back. I lost a hell of a lot of money, I complained but got nowhere. I had no proof. Has this happened to anyone else? I think it is a scandal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
candyman Posted August 30, 2012 Report Share Posted August 30, 2012 Because there are so many scammers out there. Scammer buyers I mean. When they buy your things they expect them to be sent across the world as cheap as possible. Well in this country (UK) it now costs near enough £100 to do it properly. I buy big boxes and pack really well. Then when posting I always send them insured and registered but the last few I sold the buyers all asked me to send them the cheapest way or they would not go through with the sale as they thought my shipping prices too high. So stupidly enough I did. They all paid through paypal. Then a month later they are on to me about not recieving the goods and made a claim with paypal who gave them their money back. I lost a hell of a lot of money, I complained but got nowhere. I had no proof. Has this happened to anyone else? I think it is a scandal. You're right. Ebay is a big scam. I've given up on it for the very reasons you have. I had quite a few US bidders get their money back from paypal and ebay have been chasing me through debt collectors for their commision, even though I received nothing because the entire amount including postage was refunded to the buyer. All the buyer has to do is claim the item hasn't arrived, arrived damaged, or wasn't as described. I have even had kids blackmailing me with negative feedback, saying that if I didn't let them keep the item free, they would leave negative feedback. It doesn't take much to find many many websites offering information about how to buy stuff for free on ebay using the ebay buyer protection which is so biased towards the buyer that it's complete nonsense. You cannot even leave negative feedback for a buyer under any circumstances! Just for the record, it's not violins nor music related items I've sold in the past, but small collectables on behalf of a local charity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr_V Posted August 31, 2012 Report Share Posted August 31, 2012 eBay is skewed in favor of the buyer, I stopped selling on eBay when paypal decided to start keeping my money for a month even though I've been a customer for 5 years with a perfect record. It put a bad taste in my mouth that hone of that history was taken into account. I've only had one buyer scam me by buying something and then opening a case and sending back an empty box, it was for a $92.00 item. I figured if someone is that desperate to sell out their integrity for $92.00 they can have it. The guy was shocked when I called him, I don't think he understood that we as sellers can get access to all of their contact information. I calmly belittled him over the phone and left it at that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
puckfandan Posted August 31, 2012 Report Share Posted August 31, 2012 You're right. Ebay is a big scam. I've given up on it for the very reasons you have. I had quite a few US bidders get their money back from paypal and ebay have been chasing me through debt collectors for their commision, even though I received nothing because the entire amount including postage was refunded to the buyer. All the buyer has to do is claim the item hasn't arrived, arrived damaged, or wasn't as described. I have even had kids blackmailing me with negative feedback, saying that if I didn't let them keep the item free, they would leave negative feedback. It doesn't take much to find many many websites offering information about how to buy stuff for free on ebay using the ebay buyer protection which is so biased towards the buyer that it's complete nonsense. You cannot even leave negative feedback for a buyer under any circumstances! I buy and sell a lot on ebay, so far I have had better luck selling than buying. I have to admit, I get a lot of violins that have damage that was not mentioned or photographed and when I mention it I get "that must have happened during shipping put in a claim" Please do not think I am against you on this, the opposite actually...ebay sides with buyers not sellers because as a seller we have to put up with more. However, I did get a Chinese "old italian" instrument that the seller would not admit or give me a refund, but ebay did....but yes, I know sooner or later I will get burned by someone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeC Posted August 31, 2012 Report Share Posted August 31, 2012 eBay is skewed in favor of the buyer, I stopped selling on eBay when paypal decided to start keeping my money for a month even though I've been a customer for 5 years with a perfect record. It put a bad taste in my mouth that hone of that history was taken into account. This happened to me also and I filed a better business bureau complaint and as soon as I did that, Paypal froze my account and held the money that was in it for 180 days. Paypal is a total scam! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martin swan Posted August 31, 2012 Report Share Posted August 31, 2012 Paypal and Ebay should be biased in favour of the buyer. As a seller I accept that completely. All consumer protection is there for the protection of the consumer ....! Items sold with paypal are effectively items sold with the possibility of a return> What's wrong with that? As a seller surely you want your customers to be happy. The fact that this system is open to abuse doesn't mean it's not a good system in the vast majority of cases. How else would you protect a buyer who is investing large amounts of money with a complete stranger, often over considerable distance and with language barriers? There may be the occasional buyer who is a scammer (I've never experienced this in over 500 violin sales, nor have I heard any stories until now), but without question 50% of violin sellers are engaged in some level of dishonesty, whether it's incomplete disclosure of condition issues, re-labelling, spurious mention of the word "Italian" in the title heading, fake certificates, overpricing, selling of non-existent instruments, tweaked sound samples, negligent packaging, mock-amateur photos, concealing of specialist knowledge or other activities as a retailer or auction room expert etc etc etc etc etc ....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martin swan Posted August 31, 2012 Report Share Posted August 31, 2012 An addendum relating to the OP's complaint .... In the UK you can send a violin in a very big box by courier for £10 - this has proof of delivery recognized by Ebay and paypal in the form of a signature viewable online. Insurance is available up to £1000 for 2% of the item value. If you have a regular violin dealer policy you can have items covered for around 0.1% if they're out on trial - this applies to postal sales with a return policy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gamba Posted August 31, 2012 Report Share Posted August 31, 2012 The best thing you can do is to close your paypal account. They are nothing but a bunch of thieves. The key is to read your rights as both a buyer and seller. They advertise and market their business on protection but when it comes down to it their terms of service speaks volumes. Half the stuff you buy or sell isn’t protected. Sorry about your luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gamba Posted August 31, 2012 Report Share Posted August 31, 2012 PayPal Fully Controls Your Funds and can Freeze Your Account at Any Time, Leaving You without Access and without a Payment Solution. Once an account is frozen it’s often held by PayPal for Months on end While Your Bills Pile up and Your Business Stands Still. Avoid Getting Your PayPal Account Frozen & The Domino Effect that Prevents You From Fulfilling Orders, Resulting in Charge-Backs and the Illusion of Fraudulent Activity PayPal’s rates vary based on the payments received per month. The fee per transaction for payment amounts of up to $3,000 is 2.9%. Customers must set up a PayPal account in order to purchase, creating an extra step in the buying process. PayPal is not a regulated financial institution and is not FDIC insured. PayPal is often seen as an entry solution in comparison to a merchant account and gateway account. It’s a third-party option with a separate checkout process. Funds can take up to 21 days to become available, at which point you must manually request a transfer to your bank account. PayPal monitors its own fraud filters and you have no insight into how transactions are accepted or declined. Without making an educated decision yourself, you risk missing out on potential sales. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skreechee Posted August 31, 2012 Author Report Share Posted August 31, 2012 Paypal and Ebay should be biased in favour of the buyer. As a seller I accept that completely. All consumer protection is there for the protection of the consumer ....! Items sold with paypal are effectively items sold with the possibility of a return> What's wrong with that? As a seller surely you want your customers to be happy. The fact that this system is open to abuse doesn't mean it's not a good system in the vast majority of cases. How else would you protect a buyer who is investing large amounts of money with a complete stranger, often over considerable distance and with language barriers? There may be the occasional buyer who is a scammer (I've never experienced this in over 500 violin sales, nor have I heard any stories until now), but without question 50% of violin sellers are engaged in some level of dishonesty, whether it's incomplete disclosure of condition issues, re-labelling, spurious mention of the word "Italian" in the title heading, fake certificates, overpricing, selling of non-existent instruments, tweaked sound samples, negligent packaging, mock-amateur photos, concealing of specialist knowledge or other activities as a retailer or auction room expert etc etc etc etc etc ....... I'm not talking about the majority of buyers. I have had no problems until lately. What I would like to know is who is your courier. Ten pounds! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skreechee Posted August 31, 2012 Author Report Share Posted August 31, 2012 just to add. Alot ask for it to be put as gift on the paperwork so they don't get hit with import costs which I am happy to do. All my violins and bows go out as I would like them sent to me. I have shown paypal the emails off these few persons and even though they in principle, agreed with me, they still said I needed a tracking number and that they where to be sent signed for. I have been through many couriers and the prices to send this way are astronomical. I say again, there is no way you can send a violin, in its case in a big box for ten pounds, fully insured and signed for. I lost over £1000 and now have to pay paypal back. I said I will pay them a pound a month. Paypal needs to go and be replaced by a proper government controlled way of payment and ebay needs to legislate that the buyer, before making payment for buying and shipping, agrees with the seller's shipping fee. My ebay violins where always well described, no hyperberly, or fraudulent crap. I used to buy off a seller in china. His violins where very good but his whole setting up was awful so I set them up with high quality fittings and strings and openly said they where from china but they really sounded very good when set up properly and a lady bought about five from me as she was a dealer and made money on them, she was open with me and I was open with her. I made very little money on them but just enjoyed learning how to set up violins properly. I have only ever had one return and had 100 percent so I am so discusted with ebay and paypal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lyndon Posted August 31, 2012 Report Share Posted August 31, 2012 of course selling cheap bows and calling them french doesnt count as fraud, does it?? at least not for skreechee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
puckfandan Posted August 31, 2012 Report Share Posted August 31, 2012 Lyndon, you definately get 2 thumbs up for todays comments! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
puckfandan Posted September 1, 2012 Report Share Posted September 1, 2012 Should call you pucker up fan by the amount of ass kissing you do... If you are going to come on here and be an advocate for deception and ripping people off then why do you hide? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr_V Posted September 1, 2012 Report Share Posted September 1, 2012 If you are going to come on here and be an advocate for deception and ripping people off then why do you hide? says the guy named puckfan... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
puckfandan Posted September 1, 2012 Report Share Posted September 1, 2012 says the guy named puckfan... My name was on my profile page, you have nothing on yours....I hope the comment is wrong about you being an American.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr_V Posted September 1, 2012 Report Share Posted September 1, 2012 My name was on my profile page, you have nothing on yours....I hope the comment is wrong about you being an American.... You're not Dan Everett I'm Dan Everett, you really believe you are at all less anonymous than me? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lyndon Posted September 1, 2012 Report Share Posted September 1, 2012 Dr V youre off to a great start here on maestronet, making friends left and right, heres to you getting special private messages from the moderators, or saving them some time and going back and thoughtfully reading the rules for posting on this forum, i especially invite you to read carefully the no trolling section!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr_V Posted September 1, 2012 Report Share Posted September 1, 2012 Dr V youre off to a great start here on maestronet, making friends left and right, heres to you getting special private messages from the moderators, or saving them some time and going back and thoughtfully reading the rules for posting on this forum, i especially invite you to read carefully the no trolling section!! You should give them a read too: "Personal attacks on individuals will not be tolerated and will result in banning from participation in the forums. For example you are free to state that in your opinion a certain instrument labelled such and such is or is not authentic. You can also support your opinion with facts as you see them, as long as you make no reference to the individual or company listing the instrument or use hearsay in your argument." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lyndon Posted September 1, 2012 Report Share Posted September 1, 2012 i suggest you promptly remove your quote you falsely attribute to me above, for one thing the word is loser not looser, ive already contacted the moderator Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr_V Posted September 1, 2012 Report Share Posted September 1, 2012 i suggest you promptly remove your quote you falsely attribute to me above, for one thing the word is loser not looser, ive already contacted the moderator It's a quote from puckfan one page back, why it attributed it to you I do not know, they can take a look at their software updates. I'm well aware of how to spell loser, hence the LOL by me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hk1997 Posted September 1, 2012 Report Share Posted September 1, 2012 Because there are so many scammers out there. Scammer buyers I mean. When they buy your things they expect them to be sent across the world as cheap as possible. Well in this country (UK) it now costs near enough £100 to do it properly. I buy big boxes and pack really well. Then when posting I always send them insured and registered but the last few I sold the buyers all asked me to send them the cheapest way or they would not go through with the sale as they thought my shipping prices too high. So stupidly enough I did. They all paid through paypal. Then a month later they are on to me about not recieving the goods and made a claim with paypal who gave them their money back. I lost a hell of a lot of money, I complained but got nowhere. I had no proof. Has this happened to anyone else? I think it is a scandal. I can empathize a bit because this happens to me about three to six times a month and I like to give the customer the benefit of the doubt. My problem stems from shipping an item via first class international -- the cheaper option -- where the item does not always track all the way to the customer's door. It all depends on what kind of agreement your country's postal service has with the destination's postal service. I only use the cheaper service on cheap items. Priority mail is more secure, but I'm not going to charge my international customer $25 to ship a $12 item. If I ship to Canada, U.K., Germany, Japan, Hong Kong, Australia (i.e. rich countries), I generally have no problems with USPS first class mail, The countries I sometimes have trouble with is Argentina, Brazil, Mexico, sometimes Spain, sometimes Italy. With these countries, items sometimes arrive in two weeks, sometimes three months. It all depends on the speed of the U.S. and the destination's customs department. I usually get "item not arrived" emails at around the one-month mark and I do not hesitate to refund. I mark the transaction for cancellation immediately afterwards. My international customers purchase primarily publications, sports apparel, and shoes. The average price per item is about $15-$60. I ship about five international packages a day and I think it's bad business to not ship internationally especially to burgeoning economies like Brazil and Argentina. My products are easier to replenish than a nice violin so I can afford to take a loss sometimes. But whenI ship an expensive item. I make sure I protect myself. Purchase insurance if possible. Never ship "the cheap way" on an expensive item. My main gripe with eBay in regards to shipping internationally is the estimated time of delivery they show the customer is usually inaccurate. It gets the customer's hopes up when in actuality, nobody knows when the item might arrive. the It MIGHT be two weeks. It might be one month. it might be THREE months. I haven't sold a violin in a few years on eBay but I know it's a horrible place to buy a nice violin, great place to purchase a cheap one. eBay's rules are getting tougher and the policies do lean in favor of the buyer. It's frustrating, but the policies are making it a better place to do business. Maybe not for the violin dealers, but for everyone else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hk1997 Posted September 1, 2012 Report Share Posted September 1, 2012 just to add. Alot ask for it to be put as gift on the paperwork so they don't get hit with import costs which I am happy to do. All my violins and bows go out as I would like them sent to me. I have shown paypal the emails off these few persons and even though they in principle, agreed with me, they still said I needed a tracking number and that they where to be sent signed for. I have been through many couriers and the prices to send this way are astronomical. I say again, there is no way you can send a violin, in its case in a big box for ten pounds, fully insured and signed for. I lost over £1000 and now have to pay paypal back. I said I will pay them a pound a month. Paypal needs to go and be replaced by a proper government controlled way of payment and ebay needs to legislate that the buyer, before making payment for buying and shipping, agrees with the seller's shipping fee. My ebay violins where always well described, no hyperberly, or fraudulent crap. I used to buy off a seller in china. His violins where very good but his whole setting up was awful so I set them up with high quality fittings and strings and openly said they where from china but they really sounded very good when set up properly and a lady bought about five from me as she was a dealer and made money on them, she was open with me and I was open with her. I made very little money on them but just enjoyed learning how to set up violins properly. I have only ever had one return and had 100 percent so I am so discusted with ebay and paypal. Not to side with eBay -- as I experience headaches with them every single day -- but it sounds to me like you did not protect yourself. Even lying about the value on the customs form is against the law (at least it is in the U.S.A. -- I learned that in a import/export class in University) On the flip side, you took a business risk. Sometimes it works out, sometimes it doesn't. In business, you're going to experience big losses like this from time to time whether the transaction is through eBay/PayPal, over the phone, or face-to-face. It's not going to be your last. Use this as a learning experience. Always protect yourself within reason but don't overprotect yourself to where nobody wants to do business with you. It's a bit demoralizing, but I wouldn't suspend your business doings on eBay over this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hk1997 Posted September 1, 2012 Report Share Posted September 1, 2012 Paypal and Ebay should be biased in favour of the buyer. As a seller I accept that completely. All consumer protection is there for the protection of the consumer ....! Items sold with paypal are effectively items sold with the possibility of a return> What's wrong with that? As a seller surely you want your customers to be happy. The fact that this system is open to abuse doesn't mean it's not a good system in the vast majority of cases. How else would you protect a buyer who is investing large amounts of money with a complete stranger, often over considerable distance and with language barriers? There may be the occasional buyer who is a scammer (I've never experienced this in over 500 violin sales, nor have I heard any stories until now), but without question 50% of violin sellers are engaged in some level of dishonesty, whether it's incomplete disclosure of condition issues, re-labelling, spurious mention of the word "Italian" in the title heading, fake certificates, overpricing, selling of non-existent instruments, tweaked sound samples, negligent packaging, mock-amateur photos, concealing of specialist knowledge or other activities as a retailer or auction room expert etc etc etc etc etc ....... Their cockamamie, frustrating policies that favor the customer is actually bringing more customers to eBay. I have gray hairs over it, but it is good for business. Higher standards are always good for business. Martin, in my industry, our Roger Hargraves, Bruce Carlsons, (enter your favorite authenticator here), have close relationships with eBay because eBay has become the central marketplace for our products (sports collectibles). They can actually police some of the listings. They have direct access to end fraudulent listings without question. They can report repeat fraudulent sellers more effectively. They do make mistakes from time to time, and they don't catch everything because they're not on eBay all the time but the selling and buying environment is much safer and much better than it used to be. I'm sure they have experts on board for other collectibles as well. Wouldn't it be nice if this were available for the violin listings on eBay? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeffrey Holmes Posted September 1, 2012 Report Share Posted September 1, 2012 Should call you pucker up fan by the amount of ass kissing you do... You may choose, by your behavior in the very near future, if you'd like to be able to continue posting here or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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