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beginner question- chromatic tuner


JamesRugby

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James get your son an IPod and have him install clear tune by Bitcount .It has temperament settings for both violin and stretch tuned guitar .Then you just keep using it. Better than getting our wife a bowling ball. The app. Is free and simple to use But it should be use to help you train your ear. You can never forget where you put your ear.

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Keeping in mind the topic is "Beginner Question... " smile.gif

no, equal tempered perfect fifths are not the same as just perfect fifths, just perfect fifths being what violin family instruments are tuned to.

But, for a beginner, sure, go ahead and use the Korg (equal tempered).

For ipad/ipod/iphone, you can get a violin family tuner which should eliminate all consternation.

I have the insTuner which is accurate to 0.1 cents, has an FFT display, and more temperaments that I will ever use (or understand).

And no, nothing beats hearing (and eliminating) the beats.

I hope I got that right... my flameproof suit is at the cleaners. unsure.gif

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I was asked to post on this, so I'll take a stab at it.

I have a chromatic tuner Korg CA-30 this was bought for my sons guitar and now I would like to use it for the cello or do I have to buy a new one

my son said "it a guitar tuner not a cello the note are different " but I told him a c,g is a c,g on any stringed instrument and the tuner will work just fine"

please help with this argument!!

James

If you're something close to a beginner on the cello, the "guitar" tuner should work fine. Down the road, you'll probably start to take advantage of various intonation tweaks available on fretless instruments, like different strategies when playing in different keys, and moving notes around to help create a mood.

Regardless of who made the tuner, someone had to make decisions about which tuning strategies to incorporate, whether it's set up to mimic common piano tuning, or maybe they consulted some famous guitar player who was supposed to know what he was doing. There isn't really a universally "correct" set of relationships between pitches when playing music. Bach was one of the people who messed around with different tuning strategies quite a bit.

An added complication is that when we hear a "note", we can be taking our intonation cues not just from the fundamental, but also from all the other notes in the overtone structure which are sounding at the same time. I won't call it a "harmonic" structure, because these overtones aren't always where they should be mathematically to be "harmonic".

The bottom line is that musical intonation is a judgement call. For now, you should be fine using whatever "judgement" they decided to build into the guitar tuner.

One thing nice about violin family instruments is that when vibrato is used, you can kind of hear whatever pitch pleases you somewhere in the general wobble. :lol:

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Just to add a little bit to the discussion, because the topic shifted a little bit, part of the original question was "...my son said it's a guitar tuner not a cello, the notes are different..."

I would be curious to know if J. Rugby's son was referring to the difference due to the perfect fifth or temperament tuning, or simply to the different notes of the open strings.

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James get your son an IPod and have him install clear tune by Bitcount .It has temperament settings for both violin and stretch tuned guitar .Then you just keep using it. Better than getting our wife a bowling ball. The app. Is free and simple to use But it should be use to help you train your ear. You can never forget where you put your ear.

I love suggestions like this.

(paraphrased, obviously) "I don't want to spend $9.99 on my own tuner, can I use my guitar playing sons?"

"Sure. And to make it convenient, go ahead and buy your son a $200+ device"

unsure.gif

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it was only a simple question but ended up still making my head spin

Is there a chromatic tune just for the cello then ??

Please remember I'm a beginner on this next part

How long will it take to be able to tune by ear and is there any advice for reaching this.

I have looked on the internet and found software for this and using your computer but most computers have cheap speakers and to me they sound tinny and the software that generates these tones still sound digital to me

James

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Here's another vote for fiddlemark's recommendation of Cleartune by Bitcount for Ipod, iphone or ipad. This chromatic tuner app has as many features as tuners selling > $100 and seems just as accurateand costs <$10. Using the violin family temperment,it reproduces the same tuning as tuning just 5ths by ear.

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Is there a chromatic tune just for the cello then ??

How long will it take to be able to tune by ear and is there any advice for reaching this.

James

I agree with John Cockburn. However, to answer your questions, Wittner makes a somewhat obsolete tuner for violin, viola and cello. Five notes. Last I checked they cost less than $30. I have had one for close to 25 years and it works. I wouldn't call it "chromatic," though. Downside, you have to move the switch for each note and remember to turn it off. There is at least one other that should work (but I'm not sure), the Peterson Stroboclip. Costs about $70.

As far as how long, that is impossible to say. You may always need a reference for the A string or you may get that in your head, too. I know a banjo player whose father showed him once how to tune a guitar when he was a teenager and he has never needed even a tuning fork. He is 70 years old now and can still tune guitar, banjo and fiddle with only his ear. And he agrees with the electronic tuners. You may never get to that point, so don't worry about it.

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Just to add a little bit to the discussion, because the topic shifted a little bit, part of the original question was "...my son said it's a guitar tuner not a cello, the notes are different..."

I would be curious to know if J. Rugby's son was referring to the difference due to the perfect fifth or temperament tuning, or simply to the different notes of the open strings.

No my son was saying as it's a guitar tuner not for a cello I don't think he knows what a perfect fifth or temperament tuning is

he think as it was bought for this guitar it is to be used exclusively for a guitar.

bless him I also think he was saying buy your own dad!!

James

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bless him I also think he was saying buy your own dad!!

Bless his knuckles. (and his heart, and every other bit)

The Korg CA-30, being a general purpose chromatic tuner, is suitable for tuning just about any instrument you can get your hands on. I happen to believe that the cello is the finest instrument playable by human hands, so power to you.

The bit about equal temperament vs. just intonation might be more than you need right now, but Pablo Casals said this about it: "Do not be afraid to be out of tune with the piano. It is the piano that is out of tune. The piano with its tempered scale is a compromise in intonation."

I'm with the ones who favor tuning the A string with the tuner, and then going by justly tuned perfect fifths on down. That way your C string may be about six cents flat with respect to a nicely tuned piano, but the cello will be in tune with itself. For extra fun, learn to bow harmonics, and then you can take any two neighboring strings and tune a unison between the octave of the upper string and the fifth+octave of the lower string. (I use the edge of my thumb for the octave, and some other finger, say 3, to catch the third harmonic node closer to the bridge.)

Adjacent-string drones are fun, anyway. I was taught to get a G major scale in tune (one octave, on the middle two strings) by keeping both strings going, using one as a drone. There are only two notes that doesn't work so well for: the C and the F#. for the C, bop over to a low open C drone, and for the F#, rock up to the open A alongside it.

Too much typing already, so I'll stop.

Well, just one more thing: David Burgess pointed out the difference between overtones and harmonics in reply #32, and that shows up big-time when a string goes false, but players call them harmonics anyway...

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