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violins88

plane cap iron video

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I found this video very interesting. For violin makers, probably helpful in using a plane for the center joint. Don't view it if you are not really interested in how your plane works. You will be bored to tears.

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Interesting -- although I confess I skipped ahead ;). As an alternate point of view, many modern plan makers don't believe in chip breakers (e.g. Karl Holtey). In the end, all that matters is the iron gets the job done as efficiently as possible!

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I found this video very interesting. For violin makers, probably helpful in using a plane for the center joint. Don't view it if you are not really interested in how your plane works. You will be bored to tears.

Wow, I didn't read your entire post and just clicked on the link, I almost started crying... :blink:...But interesting video none the less!

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Wow, I didn't read your entire post and just clicked on the link, I almost started crying... :blink:...But interesting video none the less!

Ha, ha. Tears of boredom, no less. I told you so.

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A lot of people obsess over the tightness of the mouth of the plane. I wonder whether the distance to the chip breaker is more important? Can anyone tell me before I have to get out my calculator what is 0.1 mm in an english fractional unit?

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Needless to say I loved the link……my daughters thought I had gone completely mad as I sat completely engrossed watching this from start to finish last night.

neil

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For pratical purposes, 3 significant figures is too much!

25 mm per inch

1 mm is 0.040 in.

0.1 mm is 0.004 in

0.05 mm is .002 in

10 cm is 4 Inches

30 cm is a foot

1 Meter is a long yard.

500 gm is a big pound

1000 kg is a long ton

100 Km/Hr is 60 MPH

The exact conversions are for machinists and accountants!

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mesmerizing :blink:

Oded

Yeah, maybe it was the music, but I felt like I was in a trance. Help me here, I use a plane, but don't know that I have ever used a "cap iron". Can anyone explain? I see the difference...actually extremely interesting. What happens if you use a hollow grind on the upside of your plane?

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My understanding of the terminology is that the lever cap is just the metal piece that holds the blade firm against the bed of the plane, just as a wedge does in a traditional old wood plane.

On a “Stanley style” plane you have the chip breaker (or cap iron) usually screwed to the blade and the lever cap using sprung tension to hold the blade and chip breaker firmly in place.

On a block plane there will be no chip breaker/cap iron and the lever cap will with a screw mechanism usually hold the blade down against the bed of the plane.

Generally bench planes (such as smothers, panel and jointers) will have the ground bevel on the plane blade facing downwards, where as smaller planes such as block planes, chariot planes, shoulder planes etc. will have the bevel facing upwards.

Traditionally a bevel down plane will have a chip breaker/cap iron and a bevel up plane won’t.

There are plenty of exceptions to this very general rule and today there are plane makers producing bevel down planes without chip breakers and traditional sized bench planes that are bevel up.

Neil

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I'm with Neal on this. I found it very interesting. Not hard for me to watch. I'm a tool geek though. There are few things in wood working that feel better than using a sharp, tuned hand plane.

Berl

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I'm with Neal on this. I found it very interesting. Not hard for me to watch. I'm a tool geek though. There are few things in wood working that feel better than using a sharp, tuned hand plane.

Berl

Berl,

Yes. Same for me too. OTH, I know a very smart fellow who is an amateur woodworker. He said he uses handplanes. When I asked him about his sharpening method, what kind of honing stones he uses, he said, "No, I just grind." So he has never used a sharp plane. Wow. I expect him to mail me his plane blades so I can really sharpen them.

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Berl,

Yes. Same for me too. OTH, I know a very smart fellow who is an amateur woodworker. He said he uses handplanes. When I asked him about his sharpening method, what kind of honing stones he uses, he said, "No, I just grind." So he has never used a sharp plane. Wow. I expect him to mail me his plane blades so I can really sharpen them.

I use the break disk hone that I made from your postings here,Is that your idea? ....thanks! works great .Right now I just back the thing up to a drill press with a rubber sanding drum in the chuck for power...works a charm...I used the seat adjustment from an old bicicle for a tool rest.

Watching the vidieo I'm reminded of water, air ...and of cut angles for hardwoods,that a steeper angle can help reduce tearout with non cap iron blades,The increased angle acts more as a plow with increased shear force compaired to tensile -splittling force on the wood. anyone know the max angle? I THINK I heard 50 degrees. An increased angle seems like a good workaround for a bevel up blade.

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Oh my! Two great if entirely different videos. Loved them both. I could have watched the first for an hour, simply hypnotic. The second had me identifying madly with the plane salesperson although I would never use such profanities.

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A lot of people obsess over the tightness of the mouth of the plane. I wonder whether the distance to the chip breaker is more important? Can anyone tell me before I have to get out my calculator what is 0.1 mm in an english fractional unit?

Get out a piece of wood, and a plane, and try various settings for yourself, and put the calculator back where it belongs! ;)

There are so many variables with planes and wood, that what will work for me may not work for you.

If I said take your #4 plane, and you did and it did not work, though we both have #4 planes, are they the same? Is your technique the same, or is the wood the same. So it all boils down to experience, and a calculator will not give you that.

You will have your answer in 5 minutes if you make shavings, and an experience to fall back on later.

That is why woodworking is something that is taught, and not just learnt.

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This information dates back to the 19th Century at least, and the video is a bit misleading, because it doesn't take cutter angle, relief angle or mouth opening into account. Nor does it take into account anything regarding cutter compression with rotary cutters, and probably a lot of other stuff I've forgotten since the 1960s. All it really tells you is the general effect of chipbreaker angle and clearance in soft wood. That's good to know, but there's sure a lot more to understand.

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Extremely useful proof for the use of a cap iron. Many claim they are unneccessary :)

If you study the history of the cap-iron then you will see that it's origin came about when good quality steel was expensive, and so with a cap-iron, steel blades could be made thinner, without chattering, and thus a savings in the cost of manufacteuring the steel blade.

There is also a savings when it comes to abrasives, if you are sharpening a thinner blade.

Today the trend is towards thicker 'exotic metals' in blades and diamond abrasives. All this means cap-irons are becoming obsolescent.

Here is the latest on what Veritas/Lee Valley are up to bladewise.

PM-V11

Testing

They are getting close to launching these blades, and chisels.

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