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quite common ....

it was "wooden" who posted a possibly Mittenwald violin with purfling near the edge, and a one-piece bottom rib with a Mittenwald notch and an inset saddle like this one

many Scottish violins have inset saddles, but the combination of this feature with a one-piece bottom rib and a centre notch below the tailpin would argue quite strongly for Mittenwald. Jacob will correct me if I'm wrong.

In this case I'm having difficulty seeing the photos, but I wouldn't touch it with a bargepole, whether it's mitterwald or no!

The seller tells us that the Kloz family were famous for their eccentric approach to spelling, and that for this reason he claims the label is authentic - an extremely cynical piece of mis-information

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I can only see about a quarter of the photos, and can't get the photo of the bottom rib, but so far it looks like a mid 19th century "Klotz School" violin, not particularly nice, and with a major googly in the upper back. I would expect to see it at a Gardiner Houlgate auction described as "tyrolese" and with an estimate under £1000 .... which would seem fair. In my opinion it ain't no Aegidius Klotz, but I would be happy to be corrected.

If it was anything decent, I'm sure it would have been through a very good shop and been nicely retouched and restored just like the Geissenhof we discussed recently.

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this one also has a single lower rib with a seemingly notch. So that would point to Mitten®wald then?

As I posted last week, a one piece bottom rib with a notch is not nearly enough to identify a violin as Mittenwald, since you can see that in violins from all sort of other places. This one for instance isn`t Mittenwald (or Tirol :angry:). If the OP wants to spend that much + repair, he can come round to my shop and chose himself one that is already repaired. It was, once upon a time, a nice fiddle, but has had poor luck with the individuals who “repaired” it.

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It's extremely common, just as you find a lot of German violins with "copie de" labels, pretending to be French copies of Italian violins. Nowadays Chinese violins have copy labels (often of contemporary Italian makers) just because they would rather be anything other than what they are.

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What is the point to put a fake Mittenwald label (including a spelling mistake) inside a violin? I can understand that some would foolishly think printing Stradivarius, Guarnerius or Amati would add some value to a violin, but Mittenwald?

You, as a frenchman (I think?) could see if you went to Paris, for instance, that Klotz is virtualy the only south german name that they know (and charge a lot for). Everything else to the right of Strasbourg is “ecole d`est”

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Martin, how can you be sure some of them arent French,not all French violins look typically French,the French workshops sold French made copies of German Makers and also sold violins made by German makers with their own (French)labels in.I find it rather hard to distinguish between some of the French stuff and ive known one or two French experts who will admit to getting confused themselves especially concerning French workshop instruments. :)

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Interesting, never seen one here, perhaps they made them especially for export to the frogs.

It is never the less irrelevant for this case, since the violin under discussion is not a “trade violin” of any sort or description, but a ruined master instrument from ca.1770, which has been robbed of it`s original label, for the sake of a (recent rubbish label) “known” name and not some junk that started life with a fake label.

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What is the point to put a fake Mittenwald label (including a spelling mistake) inside a violin? I can understand that some would foolishly think printing Stradivarius, Guarnerius or Amati would add some value to a violin, but Mittenwald?

To go from a no-name South German violin to a named Kloz can be a big difference in price, certainly far more than the cost of the paper.

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Martin, how can you be sure some of them arent French,not all French violins look typically French,the French workshops sold French made copies of German Makers and also sold violins made by German makers with their own (French)labels in.I find it rather hard to distinguish between some of the French stuff and ive known one or two French experts who will admit to getting confused themselves especially concerning French workshop instruments. :)

Well I would agree it can be tricky. I didn't say I could always be sure, I just said that there were a lot of German violins with "copie de" labels!

However, Laberte instruments generally use "modele d'apres" rather than "copie de", certainly for the better grades. "Copie de" in a Mirecourt instrument and it's probably JTL, in which case there are other distinguishing features ...

Very helpfully, many "copie de" instruments also say Made In Germany or fecit Saxony!

A lot of non-Mirecourt fiddles don't have upper corner blocks. They never have cleated back seams.

The edgework tends to be distinctive on Mirecourt instruments,.

Flat scroll eyes always Mirecourt (unless they're Markneukirchen imitations, in which case they tend to be very broad across the bouts and the varnish is characteristic)

etc etc

German violins with a "copie de" label are almost always very poor, so the inner work tends to give the game away

But I'm sure you know all this ....

For the record, I made no connection between turn of the century trade fiddles and the violin under discussion - I still can't see most of the photos.

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Yes I have big problems these days - Ebay.de images make my broadband connection cut out if I try to look at them on firefox, safari is OK but this particular seller's images never load - I think it may be to do with using a Mac in a (very) rural area with pitifully slow download speeds.

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