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Unknown Violin for your comments


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Here is another mystery violin for your comment. I do not know the age or any history save this:

I had a professional repair person review the violin and he told me that the label on the inside is most likely a repair label, from 1986, has french words on it, and it very much older than 1986. It had cracks repaired on the front as you can probably see from the pictures. The repair person said it is very much a high quality instrument and would like to buy it from me once I find out some details on it.

The label has several words including "Ligue" "Greuello" and "Calle(which is spanish oddly enough)" and with Paris 1986 at the end. Any one of which I may be misspelling because it is obviously hand written in cursive.

Pictures of the Violin

Any insight which can point me in the right direction is much appreciated!

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Any insight which can point me in the right direction is much appreciated!

Someone here will know the origin of this kind of decorated violin which you met frequently enough, with double purfling and occasionally scrolls carved with human or animal heads. I suspect somewhere East of France however....

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I can say that the scenery on the back is inlaid by hand (At least to me it is by hand).

The idea that the words could refer to the back scenery somehow makes some sense. I spoke to a French person I know and he said that there is a town called Grenoble but not Grenolle. (He corrected my spelling from the first posting.)

I will measure when I get home.

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The Markneukirchen Wholesaler, G. A. Pfretschner, listed in an old catalogue #314 “Fancy violin, Red brown, ebony trimmings, wood landscape inlaid on back”, as would have the other dealers in the town. Since they were only wholesale dealers, it will be impossible to determine in which of the surrounding villages, who made it.

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I can say that the scenery on the back is inlaid by hand (At least to me it is by hand).

The idea that the words could refer to the back scenery somehow makes some sense. I spoke to a French person I know and he said that there is a town called Grenoble but not Grenolle. (He corrected my spelling from the first posting.)

I will measure when I get home.

there is indeed a town called Grenoble in France, but it can easily pass as Grenolle when handwritten because b and l can be nearly identical in hand writing.

Although I can't really say that the picture shows the town.

I forgot to say that there is one area of Paris Called Grenelle. So if the "o" looks more like a "e" there is still this possibility.

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When the violin is all art painted on the back.

So, all the arts of the violins in the back. Image is also a primary identification.

Like Jacob said, on his bookshelf are all questions. Just need to "look", in this book.

Given my opinion looks like a violin that was made ​​after 1960.

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Trade fiddle from around 1900, give or take. Imported and sold by Sears and similar, and illustrated in their catalogs, also (xeroxed) in Ehrhardt's 3-vol Violin Identification and Price Guide put out in 1977 et seq. but now, I believe, out of print.

There's one quite like yours, albeit having a different scene, on p46 of Ehrhardt's book 1: "No. 110 Dark, rich brown, fancy colord wood inlaying of ancient castle in back, double purling around edges, good tone, pearl flowers in tailpiece. A good violin. $9.50". Advertised in 1912 by J. W. Jenkins Sons Music Company.

Another, listed under "Violins with Mosaic" in Thibouville-Lamy's 1891 wholesale catalog (illustr. in Ehrhardt's bk 2), went for $8.40. Or $35.20 if you wanted a "Duiffoprugard" label, carved head, and "extra fine mosaic".

Others, being sold from 1898 thru 1910 by Rudolph Wurlitzer for $6.25 - $9, are listed with descriptions similar to "Inlaid castle on back, fine red shaded, fancy wood, imitation ebony trimmings". The illustrations show double purfling for some of them.

Hope that helps.

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Great info from all and thanks. I believe I am pointed in the right direction now. I believe my lesson learned here is that the best place to go is my local library and start looking into purchasing a few books and start doing some reading. Old fashion learning!!

That Ehrhardt's 3-vol book is selling for about $150 now! It has become a collector itself!

Again thanks to all.

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With these fancy inlaid models, the only major question is whether it's Mirecourt or not - I think I'm right that non-Mirecourt ones were made in Saxony. French or German or Bohemian, they are almost all from the late 19th/early 20th century and all are trade instruments.

The back length is generally a good test, and a back length of over 36cm on this kind of violin would be pretty decisive for me in ruling out Mirecourt. In this case the wood and the varnish colour look very un-French, and I wouldn't be surprised to discover the back length was 36.3 or even more. Perhaps Danny could give us this information?

Coincidentally, we've been discussing a Mirecourt equivalent in this thread : fancy Mirecourt

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That Ehrhardt's 3-vol book is selling for about $150 now! It has become a collector itself!

That's only twice what they were ($25.- each) when first printed.

Your fiddle looks to be in very nice shape for its age. If it sounds good, you lucked out in a major way since they were inexpensive factory productions intended to attract unsophisticated people.

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I have added closeups of the back scenery. After looking at it I am not entirely sure that it is inlay or just painted. If only painted they definitely etched it and gave it some relief and depth. I am just not sure.

Can someone let me know if you can tell if it is painted with etching or true inlay?

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its not painted, its a mosaic of different types of wood veneer, you can see the different grains in the wood veneer pieces, in any case it doesnt do anything to make the violin sound better and probably makes it sound worse, a lot of people seem to think theyre something incredible but theyre just basic "factory" or small production work, theyre putting more work into appearances and less work into sound quality, i think one like yours fully set up, restored playing would be worth roughly 1500usd, up to 2000usd maybe if it sounds really good, with sound quality probably no better than violins that can be had for 1000usd or even less, and made probably 1880-1910 or there abouts

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