Sand paper and linsed oil


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Hi

I have given two coats of clear varnish and two with color. As messed a bit with the dust that is floating in the air I passed 2500 sand paper with a little linsed oil. The result was good ... but:

Is it wrong the use of linsed oil?

Should I degrease with something before the next hand with colored varnish?

Thanks

Tango

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If you don't get off every bit of linseed oil with kaolin, you will get fisheye spots. So, I gave up on oil and switched to water. (What a heresy!)

If the varnish is thoroughly cured, namely dried, water works for me. I find that if the varnish adheres to the sander, that means the varnish is not fully cured. Or, I am pressing down on the varnish too hard with the sander.

One problem with water is that it evaporates quickly especially on dry days, so I keep a spray bottle on hand. Water is also not as slippery as oil. Some friends use soap and water, but that too must be completely removed to avoid dreaded fisheye spots.

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I've always used water, pumice, wood blocks of various shapes to carefully smooth out the surface between coats. It is tender. When lazy i've used 12oo sandpaper with pumice and water, but it is hard to get a feel of what you are doing. After it dries, i go outside with a stiff brush, brush off what i can, especially in corners, cloth and brush wipe inside the house and apply another coat of varnish. I'll do this until i have a similar coat overall and then i'll apply some more varnish coats in sequence to get solid coat. The whole process takes around 4-5 days. I make my own fossil/copal/ lins/turp varnish that dries in around 8 hours. This drying time gives you easy brushing time before it gets sticky. fred

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Hi Joe

¿How do you think I must clean the viola before the next coat?

Regards

Tango

Tango,

Dust the surface with kaolin [china clay]...like you would flour a bread pan before baking....

This will absorb the remaining oil.

Clean the kaolin off with a clean cloth [cheesecloth works well].

Dampen a clean, lint- free cloth with turpentine and clean the surface.

Follow with a clean dry cloth.

Back to varnishing.

on we go,

Joe

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David,

Linseed oil is much less aggressive in cutting...given the same grit.

on we go,

Joe

Sure, but why not just use a finer grit with water, and sidestep all the potential problems with an oil?

And why does less aggressive cutting matter anyway, since the original poster wasn't using the abrasive as a final finish, but between coats of varnish?

I don't do any leveling between coats of varnish, but if I did, I could probably get away with 600 grit and water. Scratches will be filled and leveled by the next coat, assuming the use of a varnish which flows a bit, and doesn't shrink terribly upon drying.

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Sure, but why not just use a finer grit with water, and sidestep all the potential problems with an oil?

And why does less aggressive cutting matter anyway, since the original poster wasn't using the abrasive as a final finish, but between coats of varnish?

I don't do any leveling between coats of varnish, but if I did, I could probably get away with 600 grit and water. Scratches will be filled and leveled by the next coat, assuming the use of a varnish which flows a bit, and doesn't shrink terribly upon drying.

David,

Well the linseed oil was already there and Tango wanted to be sure the surface was clean.

Less aggressive cutting?.....it is a matter of comfort....but personally I use pumice or rotttenstone with linseed oil

...between coats to take out the junk [like cat hair]...and for final polishing.

There are lots of workable polishing routines. This one works for me.

on we go,

Joe

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David,

Well the linseed oil was already there and Tango wanted to be sure the surface was clean.

Less aggressive cutting?.....it is a matter of comfort....but personally I use pumice or rotttenstone with linseed oil

...between coats to take out the junk [like cat hair]...and for final polishing.

There are lots of workable polishing routines. This one works for me.

on we go,

Joe

I'm afraid that I don't get the advantage of polishing between coats, unless "polishing" actually means "leveling" and removing debris, and a glazing system is used (alternate layers of color and varnish).

Polishing the final coat, sure, if that's your taste.

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I'm afraid that I don't get the advantage of polishing between coats, unless "polishing" actually means "leveling" and removing debris, and a glazing system is used (alternate layers of color and varnish).

Polishing the final coat, sure, if that's your taste.

just removing debris..........

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If I were starting out in varnish making I would choose stainless steel pots for the reasons discussed above.

As for "debris" the trick is to reduce or eliminate the sources. I find public enemy number one to be improperly cleaned brushes. In this regard I find myself guilty, but I am getting better. I store my cleaned brushes in a large pickle jar with a lid.

The other sources are paper dust from disposable paper towels ("Bounty" brand towels are better than most.) Then there is lint from cheep cheese cloth. Of course, there are also problems with poor cleanup from polishing, namely the compound and varnish debris. Next, I do not use any chemically treated towels. Finally, the least of my problems is anything airborne - it's all at the bench in my shop.

I think the above paragraph needs more attention for varnishers. Too little is said about the need for neatness. Of course, spray varnishers have other issues.

I want to emphasize that I am not THE expert in varnishing like Robson or Burgess, but I am sharing my experiences and look forward to learning more . ;)

Stay Tuned.

Mike

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hahaha...funny....I think Michael might have been doing exactly the same thing a I am, reading What's in Your Benck Mk 4 and this topic at the same time....when I read the start of his sentence I tought to myself "but I thought I changed topics"... laugh.gif

Anyway, Mike thanks for the tips, useful already, as I'm applying oil varnish today...smile.gif

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If I were starting out in varnish making I would choose stainless steel pots for the reasons discussed above.

As for "debris" the trick is to reduce or eliminate the sources. I find public enemy number one to be improperly cleaned brushes. In this regard I find myself guilty, but I am getting better. I store my cleaned brushes in a large pickle jar with a lid.

The other sources are paper dust from disposable paper towels ("Bounty" brand towels are better than most.) Then there is lint from cheep cheese cloth. Of course, there are also problems with poor cleanup from polishing, namely the compound and varnish debris. Next, I do not use any chemically treated towels. Finally, the least of my problems is anything airborne - it's all at the bench in my shop.

I think the above paragraph needs more attention for varnishers. Too little is said about the need for neatness. Of course, spray varnishers have other issues.

I want to emphasize that I am not THE expert in varnishing like Robson or Burgess, but I am sharing my experiences and look forward to learning more . ;)

Stay Tuned.

Mike

Mike well said, i find air dust not that much of a problem even though i varnish in the same place as i work,but i do have a habit of using those paper towels to dry excess brush cleaner off and tiny bits seem to embed themselves in the brush,especially if you are in a hurry to use the same brush.They look awful in varnish.Often not noticable in the varnish until it starts to set and they seem to migrate to the top surface.
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If I were starting out in varnish making I would choose stainless steel pots for the reasons discussed above.

As for "debris" the trick is to reduce or eliminate the sources. I find public enemy number one to be improperly cleaned brushes. In this regard I find myself guilty, but I am getting better. I store my cleaned brushes in a large pickle jar with a lid.

The other sources are paper dust from disposable paper towels ("Bounty" brand towels are better than most.) Then there is lint from cheep cheese cloth. Of course, there are also problems with poor cleanup from polishing, namely the compound and varnish debris. Next, I do not use any chemically treated towels. Finally, the least of my problems is anything airborne - it's all at the bench in my shop.

I think the above paragraph needs more attention for varnishers. Too little is said about the need for neatness. Of course, spray varnishers have other issues.

I want to emphasize that I am not THE expert in varnishing like Robson or Burgess, but I am sharing my experiences and look forward to learning more . ;)

Stay Tuned.

Mike

Mike,

I find that any debris in the varnish coat comes from application. Once the varnish is applied it doesn't seem to pick up airborne materials....so anything in there is MY fault!

on we go,

Joe

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If you have a compressor you can blow the dust out before varnishing. Control the pressure, you don't want to blast your fiddle to bits.smile.gif And not in the same area as you're varnishing in, for obvious reasons.

I've had dust come out of the ff's and collect on the varnish. I thought the inside was clean, but...

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hahaha...funny....I think Michael might have been doing exactly the same thing a I am, reading What's in Your Benck Mk 4 and this topic at the same time....when I read the start of his sentence I tought to myself "but I thought I changed topics"... laugh.gif

Anyway, Mike thanks for the tips, useful already, as I'm applying oil varnish today...smile.gif

You got that right, Carlo. I am totally confused about which thread I'm in. :blink:

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I guess the varnish that i make has the typical surface pull so that any particle on the surface has the varnish in a pyramid-like bump on the surface. This is what i remove when pumicing, trying to get a level surface that has a minimun of those dirty rotten scoundrels fred

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I can't see the problem with leaving a tiny smear of oil on the surface and then applying the next coat of varnish. Surely if its turps based varnish it will get dissolved and blended in as the brush passes over

Joe ? correct me if I'm wrong

Like coats of paint I'm not so sure that a mixing is a given...noticing how much I have to stir and mix to get an even blend of varnish and oil

I've been playing around with Joe's thick stuff a bit,my concern with that "little smear of oil" is that it's a little smear of oil ...the varnish is turp oil and rosin combined like a cake, the turps seem like they could, essentially,not be available to absorb the oil....It's to busy being varnish???

The method Joe describes does a very good job of cleaning oil off,and the oil definably slows and gentles the abrasive action,I just tried out the water,and it works...fast!

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