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Ebay Scottish Violin


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im pretty sure the grain on the back looks more like american maple than european, which would mean this is quite likely an american violin worth about 500-1000usd, this seller is a crook longstanding on ebay. and i would venture a guess hes the one responsible for the one offer.....

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I usually don't comment on auction or ID threads, but I do find myself agreeing with Lyndon as to this vn looking American. I've had similar instruments cross my bench over the last several years, and Ive developed a quirky fondness for them. I might not neccesarily agree with him on price, but what this seller is asking is absurd in my opinion.

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Well it's not Scottish so it must be crap .....

I haven't seen many American violins but this sort of maple is also very common in Europe.

Based on my studies at the Saunders School of Violin Identification and Central European History, and my own keen study of button shapes, I would think this violin can only be Schhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh ...... you know what!

A great example of "the case against soundfiles", and yet these ransom note videos trotting out yet another pedestrian interpretation of Tchaikowsky in which every violin sounds identical seem to convince the punters - at least we don't get to see the killer's face, I think I would have nightmares!

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Based on my studies at the Saunders School of Violin Identification and Central European History, and my own keen study of button shapes, I would think this violin can only be Schhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh ...... you know what!

If I'm not mistaken (and please correct me if I'm wrong), this violin retains it's original neck. Were it to come from Schönbach, it would have had a through neck, so I think one need look no further (the ammis can have it Martin :rolleyes: )

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If I'm not mistaken (and please correct me if I'm wrong), this violin retains it's original neck. Were it to come from Schönbach, it would have had a through neck, so I think one need look no further (the ammis can have it Martin :rolleyes: )

Forgive my impertinence teach, but doesn't that depend how old it is?

What about late 19th century Schhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh ... you know who? It really doesn't look 18th century to me in any way.

How about that triangular button with little cuts at the sides .... I can't see how that could be American unless it's an American copying a Bohemian.

However, as I admitted, my knowledge of American violins is pitiful (only had 3 in the house), so maybe someone can point to some examples of that kind of button and those rib corners on an American violin and I will shut up

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Has it been stripped and re-varnished? Or did the maker just not rub it up with chalk first? It's awfully blotchy. But then again the whole thing looks like vernacular work.

In my humble opinion (I’m only a Freshman at S______s Academy), it was originally varnished with 3 parts spirit, 1 part rosin, and 200 parts burnt umber. That, the button, and the rib corners make me think it’s... M____________-S________.

There is a funny blond patch at the neck root as well.

But the main thing is, I don’t think it can play birls, or roll its r’s. laugh.gif You have to be able to roll your r’s to ask for a “deep frrried Marrrrrs barrrrr.” tongue.gif

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Has it been stripped and re-varnished? Or did the maker just not rub it up with chalk first? It's awfully blotchy. But then again the whole thing looks like vernacular work .

I was wondering if the flames on the peg box have been painted on or not?

I find the expression "vernacular work" quaint, does that mean that there was a lot of swearing used whilst makeing it? Didn`t we recently learn that carving the f holes with a bow saw was a Liverpudlian feature?

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Hi guys, sorry I didn't respond back sooner - work and fatherhood come first...

I'll stick my neck out to shed some light on my opinion. And, it is just that, an opinion made from seeing ebay pics and shooting from the hip. And, even if I am horribley off base, it will still be fun. I don't claim to be an expert on American instruments. But, I do have a soft spot for them. They come in a lot of different flavors. During the 19th century and the beginning of the 20th century there were schools of making in the major metropolitan areas (Boston, Philadelphia... etc) and there were far less cultured instruments (some pretty darn quirky) the further you move out into appalachia, and to anyplace where necessity required yankee ingenuity.

Which bring me to bean fidhleir's statement:

... But then again the whole thing looks like vernacular work.

The back, scroll and rib miters (yes, the rib miters) and the varnish "hang together" like instruments I've handled from rural america. Yes, "vernacular" work. The top is less convincing to me...

How about that triangular button with little cuts at the sides .... I can't see how that could be American unless it's an American copying a Bohemian.

However, as I admitted, my knowledge of American violins is pitiful (only had 3 in the house), so maybe someone can point to some examples of that kind of button and those rib corners on an American violin and I will shut up

Fiddles made in appalachia where commonly made with out an inside or outside form, they where instead often made using individual rib forms like these:post-24735-0-06186600-1336524047_thumb.jpg

(from Foxfire book 4) and then glued on the back (or top, sometimes with blocks, sometimes with out) and finished off to form corners like these from an american fiddle recently on my bench:

post-24735-0-40122000-1336524033_thumb.jpgpost-24735-0-69732700-1336523958_thumb.jpg

They do look similar to Schoenbach corners. The triangular button Martin I could be a fluke, or as you say it could be an American copying a Schoenbach instrument. In the late 19th and early 20th centuries Sears and Roebuck violins where the "real" violins these vernacular builders had access too. It is not unheard of to see backwoods interpretations of cottage industry lion heads found on saxon fiddles.

Has it been stripped and re-varnished? Or did the maker just not rub it up with chalk first? It's awfully blotchy.

That's the way a lot of them look. Like shellac on tobacco juice. From the same instrument as above:

post-24735-0-38824600-1336524994_thumb.jpg

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It is mind boggling that this sheister is still out there selling this nonsense...like some kind of fungus one can't get rid of.... In any case it seems that there is an inordinate amount of reverb in the youtube video....anyone more versed in recording tech concur/disagree?

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I would just like to thank Jerry for telling us about appalachian violins, which I had never heard of. I will have to look for someone able to teach me how to pronounce them! A couple of people at the S______s Academy of Violin Identification and Central European History will have to repeat the semester, I`m afraid.

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I would just like to thank Jerry for telling us about appalachian violins, which I had never heard of. I will have to look for someone able to teach me how to pronounce them! A couple of people at the S______s Academy of Violin Identification and Central European History will have to repeat the semester, I`m afraid.

No problem, living in an area where you see "mountain fiddles" gets you curious about them. I'm just spreading my curiosity. As I said in my post the instrument's origin in question it is just my opinion.

And I have the Foxfire book, too!

Addie, ex-thbagpipe.gif

The chapter in foxfire book 4 is good, but mostly anecdotal. I'm pretty sure if you dig around the web you'll find more information.

Dang, failed AGAIN .....

Well, perhaps not exactly and maybe you guys can help me out with a crackpot theory... Check out the wikipedia article on Appalachia

A lot of the inhabitants of this region were Ulster Scots - people that moved from the lowlands of Scotland to the Ulster Plantation in Ireland, and then eventually to America. If I remember what I've read about early british isles instruments is that they were heavily influenced by germanic construction. I'd love to find a smoking gun of individuals who trained or were influenced by makers and made the journey to America and established the tradition.

Aside from Appalachian instruments, American violins in the more schooled areas (and self taught makers) of the 19th and early 20th century can be of a tremendous playing value. A lot of them sound really good and come up at auctions for very low prices. They have charm, and some really nice materials.

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