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GoldenPlate

Old Italian Violin Versus Modern Violin

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In any case why would someone buy a 200k violin unless one is a top class soloist? What is the point to spend that amount of money if the only thing one can play is out of tune twinkle twinkle star?

Well, people buy expensive violins all the time who can't play them well, and sometimes not at all. I met a man once who owned a lovely Strad. He would sit for hours and look at the violin's top, all-the-while plucking each string in turn, listening to the purity of the tone. Then he would turn the violin over to the other side and do the same thing. I don't know that he even owned a bow!

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Jacoby, we may be calling each other silly names, but we're also making pretty serious points on a subject we've thought about a lot!

I hesitate to mention Fritz/Curtin for the reasons LeMaster has elaborated - but after a great deal of personal experimentation I have come to the conclusion that in a blind testing I would definitely choose a good 19th century French violin, or maybe a modern violin by Peter Goodfellow with the varnish still wet, or a Rogeri, or an Alfred Vincent from the 1920s, or perhaps a particularly good EH Roth or a Prokop. There is absolutely NO correlation between good tone and either a) price or B) geographical origin or c) age. i would go further and say that there is very little correlation between quality of work and playability or fine tone. If some nice JTLs were allowed into a blind test I think they'd do very well.

I even think that steamed and pressed tables would be worthy of serious development!

Double blind testing of bows, that would be something - I can't imagine Peccattes and Tourtes would do very well against a Nuernberger or a nice modern bow ......

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If you're referring to Sacconi I think he must be no longer with us. I dunno', but I'm sure there are others here more experienced/knowledgeable than myself on that topic. I only go back as far as Wurlitzer in the very early 70's. Now that Moennig is kaput, I wouldn't even know where to go in Philly!

@ JacobyFineViolins - I don't recall you posting to that long thread, but that subject has already been hashed to death, and like politics, it's exhausting, and in the end no one's mind is changed. "You're either with us or agan' us." Besides, some people enjoy calling others silly names, myself included.

William Monical is who I was referring to. Last I talked to him was about 6 years ago, I believe. The go-to guy for old period instruments, but I've seen some choice (old) modern set-up instruments come out of his shop too.

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William Monical is who I was referring to. Last I talked to him was about 6 years ago, I believe. The go-to guy for old period instruments, but I've seen some choice (old) modern set-up instruments come out of his shop too.

Yes, I know the name, Will. Thanks for the reminder. As I mentioned, there are many others here with more knowledge on that topic than myself. I regret I never met him, and I'm wondering if he worked at Wurlitzer or if I just read his name in a book somewhere. In the early 70's I spent a great deal of time in NY dealers' showrooms, and after I met Parisot and was invited to play the 'Piatti' Strad I thought I'd met everyone!

Thanks again!

(Google, here I come!)

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NOT AGAIN! :D

So what would be your response to the original poster?

It would be nice to know more about what you think, beyond the fact that you're easily irritated!

I suppose it's inevitable that the threads which are most interesting to some prove least interesting to others.

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So what would be your response to the original poster?

It would be nice to know more about what you think, beyond the fact that you're easily irritated!

I suppose it's inevitable that the threads which are most interesting to some prove least interesting to others.

Martin, I suspect Joshua's "not again" is directed at the prospect of this turning into another blind testing thread.

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Martin, I am sorry you think of me as so easily irritated. I honestly don't know were you get that feeling. I don't get easily irritated. I actually quite expected for every one to not take me seriously in that last post. more or less I was being facetious about how this topic has been hashed and rehashed over and over again, from nearly every angle and opinion.

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I think I was just galloping away on my hobbyhorse and hit a fence!

But I would be interested to know what you think - I would imagine that modern makers get completely exasperated with the classical world's fixation with price tags and "Italians".

I have a friend who recently became leader of the 2nd violins of a prestigious orchestra. Up until then he was playing on a battered old anonymous violin which sounded heavenly, but he told he would have to spend at least £100,000 on a good old Italian violin. It seems that the players under him wouldn't take him seriously unless he had spent this kind of money.

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I think I was just galloping away on my hobbyhorse and hit a fence!

But I would be interested to know what you think - I would imagine that modern makers get completely exasperated with the classical world's fixation with price tags and "Italians".

I have a friend who recently became leader of the 2nd violins of a prestigious orchestra. Up until then he was playing on a battered old anonymous violin which sounded heavenly, but he told he would have to spend at least £100,000 on a good old Italian violin. It seems that the players under him wouldn't take him seriously unless he had spent this kind of money.

Who cares about music?.....this story reminds me of posh society ladies with their expensive designer clothes.....oh my....When you play a 100.000 + violin do you need to have a designer suit to go with it?? And it better be an italian suit too!!!

Or this all show how good the italians are with marketing....

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Armani of course!

Yes it's all down to marketing - who can ignore celebrity endorsements by the likes of Paganini and Viotti? Hi, more Italians ....

Though I think Vuillaume was the marketing genius in this particular success story.

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Armani of course!

Yes it's all down to marketing

We recently had the case here of a young soloist, who had a loaned “Stradivari” from a certain gentleman who is currently in custody. The public prossecutor obliged her to return the violin, at which point it transpired that the violin wasn`t a Stradivari at all. She all but landed in prison for allegedly substituting a Strad with something cheaper. Her argument vis a vis the Public Prossecutor was that she knew it wasn`t a Strad, but it was essential for her career that people thought she played on one. Armani is perhaps not a bad analogy.

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We recently had the case here of a young soloist, who had a loaned “Stradivari” from a certain gentleman who is currently in custody.

ROTFL!

Most elegantly said, Jacob! :D

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We recently had the case here of a young soloist, who had a loaned “Stradivari” from a certain gentleman who is currently in custody. The public prossecutor obliged her to return the violin, at which point it transpired that the violin wasn`t a Stradivari at all. She all but landed in prison for allegedly substituting a Strad with something cheaper. Her argument vis a vis the Public Prossecutor was that she knew it wasn`t a Strad, but it was essential for her career that people thought she played on one. Armani is perhaps not a bad analogy.

Makes me wonder how many young soloists out there say that they play on a Strad loaned to them by a 'wealthy anonymous donor' while in fact they are playing a violin that just looks suitably old from a distance. Seems like it would be a lot easier for the player since they wouldn't have to worry about insurance or traveling with an expensive old Italian violin.

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Makes me wonder how many young soloists out there say that they play on a Strad loaned to them by a 'wealthy anonymous donor' while in fact they are playing a violin that just looks suitably old from a distance. Seems like it would be a lot easier for the player since they wouldn't have to worry about insurance or traveling with an expensive old Italian violin.

A customer of mine has been sat at the 2nd. desk of 2nd. violins in the Wiener Symphonika for slightly over 30 years. He told me that they play a Symphony concert with a violin concerto at least once, sometimes twice a month. He has ALWAYS asked the soloist what instrument they play, and roughly every 2nd. one has had a Strad. He is convinced that that doesn`t add up and there was little I could do to change his mind.

PS: William, every time you post, I compulsively look to see if you have drunk you`re beer yet, you must be getting thirsty!

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Makes me wonder how many young soloists out there say that they play on a Strad loaned to them by a 'wealthy anonymous donor' while in fact they are playing a violin that just looks suitably old from a distance. Seems like it would be a lot easier for the player since they wouldn't have to worry about insurance or traveling with an expensive old Italian violin.

What say you : Strad or Not Strad ?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GAkw_Wi4yIo&feature=related

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What say you : Strad or Not Strad ?

You tell me. Is it the Strad, or the copy she commissioned?

At least a couple of artists I've talked to have used them rather interchangeably, and been amused by listener feedback.

To me, it's slightly nasal for the typical Strad. Must be the copy. :D

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You tell me. Is it the Strad, or the copy she commissioned?

At least a couple of artists I've talked to have used them rather interchangeably, and been amused by listener feedback.

To me, it's slightly nasal for the typical Strad. Must be the copy. :D

I'd say a Strad but you're right : it is slightly nasal. When I stepped over this I didn't know who she was and I thought it might be a GREAT modern violin made by some japanese, the closest to top Strad I ever heard. But I am not dead sure. There is something with the E which troubles me. Wikipedia says she plays the Recamier Strad - whatever that is. Sounds very similar in some way to Kavakos's Strad.

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Madame Juliette Récamier (1777-1849) owned two Strads it seems,

the other becoming the Molitor of recent auction fame.

This is the 1727 (previously owned by Misha Elman)

1727recamier.png

wiki

3434f.jpg

People occasionally mention a "reedy" sound to a Strad? Is that a common impression?

BTW - for some related trivia - It seems the same Madame Récamier gave her name to a style of Sofa

due to a famous portrait by J. L. David. getting way off topic here, sorry.

portraitofmmerecamierby.jpg

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