Mountain Luthier Posted August 4, 2012 Report Posted August 4, 2012 I agree with seeking a new teacher. No pain = gain. For those don't use a shoulder rest and are okay with it, I found that that black perfed foam shelf liner makes a nice non-slip surface to pin to your clothing at the shoulder. I had played under the chin instruments in methods string class 35yrs ago sans shoulder rest. Discovery of the rest years later when I started violin in earnst made it much more enjoyable.
Anton Klimov Posted August 6, 2012 Report Posted August 6, 2012 Hi guys, Just started the violin a week ago as a 35 yr old. My excercises for the week is bow hold excercises and bowing open strings . My teacher does not wish me to use my sholder rest I bought which I have no problem with ,however, he is telling me to practice holding the violin without hands using jaw and collarbone pressure. He says a little bit per daybto build up the strength . Impossible! IV been trying all week and I cannot do this. My left jaw hurts and I swear is bruising, and my collerbone is tender. I can do this Easily with the sholder mount but not without. is this pain normal? Why do you have to be able to support it this way? Doesn't the left hand hold it up? I'm also wondering if I'm holding it right...let me explain. I place the button at the bottom of the violin right into my neck almost touching my Adams apple. I place my chin almost on the tailpiece, and then rest my jaw on the chin rest at a slight angle. feel it snug on the collerbone and jaw, but when I clamp down and let go. The scroll dips down and it really hurts like the chinrest is digging into my jaw. I have the violin at about a 10 o'clock or so so it isn't resting on my left sholder as I read it isn't supposed to and it is slightly tilted towards the floor about 45 degrees I guess, although IV read it is supposed to be parallel, almost flat but I doubt it as in ever picture I see it's tilted. All these angles makes it complicated and I REALLY want to learn the right way. Trying to learn bowing is hard if I keep changing my angles to what its supposed to be which everyone seems to have a different opinion on.... I really could use some help. I'm so devoted to learning the and have all the passion to practice, but don't want pain. Thanks so much guys. I'm excited To finally be able to play violin as it has been a lifelong dream! Rob Rob, you are getting some bad advice. In the begining you should use a shoulder rest and a good chin rest. You do not want in the begining to battle with anything else but proper attitude for the left and right arms. Once you get more comfortable you could try do without shoulders rest IF YOUR NECK IS SHORT. It is best not to add any more complication than you need. You want to play well and not immitate Heiftz or Oistrakh. It is important to have your arms relaxed in the begining. People with short necks do well without shoulder rest but those with long necks never do. I teached violin for more than 30 years from complete beginer to Conservatory level. Trust me when I say : get one thing right at one time. Never battle a couple of issues in the same time.
Andrew Victor Posted August 9, 2012 Report Posted August 9, 2012 Hi guys, Just started the violin a week ago as a 35 yr old. My excercises for the week is bow hold excercises and bowing open strings . My teacher does not wish me to use my sholder rest I bought which I have no problem with ,however, he is telling me to practice holding the violin without hands using jaw and collarbone pressure. He says a little bit per daybto build up the strength . Impossible! IV been trying all week and I cannot do this. My left jaw hurts and I swear is bruising, and my collerbone is tender. I can do this Easily with the sholder mount but not without. is this pain normal? Why do you have to be able to support it this way? Doesn't the left hand hold it up? I'm also wondering if I'm holding it right...let me explain. I place the button at the bottom of the violin right into my neck almost touching my Adams apple. I place my chin almost on the tailpiece, and then rest my jaw on the chin rest at a slight angle. feel it snug on the collerbone and jaw, but when I clamp down and let go. The scroll dips down and it really hurts like the chinrest is digging into my jaw. I have the violin at about a 10 o'clock or so so it isn't resting on my left sholder as I read it isn't supposed to and it is slightly tilted towards the floor about 45 degrees I guess, although IV read it is supposed to be parallel, almost flat but I doubt it as in ever picture I see it's tilted. All these angles makes it complicated and I REALLY want to learn the right way. Trying to learn bowing is hard if I keep changing my angles to what its supposed to be which everyone seems to have a different opinion on.... I really could use some help. I'm so devoted to learning the and have all the passion to practice, but don't want pain. Thanks so much guys. I'm excited To finally be able to play violin as it has been a lifelong dream! Rob There are many different designs of chin rests and you probably do not have one that fits your jaw. Frankly, I was 35 years old before I found just the right chinrest for my physique - and by then I'd been playing for 30 years. I'm still using that design of chinrest - although to get a new one now I have to have it made to order because when production moved from Germany to Asia, the dimensions were changed just enough that the new ones don't fit me, even though they have the same "name." I've used many different shoulder rests for the 40 years between ages 35 and 75, but I don't use one any more. Different shoulder rests can make a difference and the same player may need a different shoulder rest on different violins. Watch videos or YouTubes of Milstein for a good example of playing without clamping down with your jaw. Clayton Haslop (a "DVD instructor" and concertmaster of many hollywood-film orchestras) advocates this approach. Andy
fiddle_faddle Posted August 12, 2012 Report Posted August 12, 2012 Hi Rob, Congrats on your decision to study violin as an adult. There are several items in your post which concern me. Some bruising is unavoidabe but there shouldn't be a lot of pain. I would definitely encourage you to use a shoulder rest assuming that you find one which is comfortable. Personally I don't use one because my neck is very short. Placing the chin above the tailpiece is fine, especially if you are short like me. You might want to consider a center mounted rest that covers the tailpiece. I really like the Carl Flesch chin rest and often recommend it to my students. I agree that the left hand should help support the violin. Grabbing the violin tightly with the shoulder can cause serious injury to the rotator cuff and pinch the blood vessels in the shoulder causing numbness in the left hand. You should place the violin on the shoulder then lower the head so that the jaw rests on the chin rest. The violin should be positioned so the left elbow is above left foot. The thumb should be held under 1st finger and angled so that the violin rests on the thumb joint closest to the nail. The joint should be held straight. Do not grab the violin with the thumb. Instead, let the violin rest on the thumb. The scroll should be as high as or slightly higher than chinrest. This will help to keep the bow near the bridge and when you become more advanced it will help with shifting. Good luck
JSully Posted August 12, 2012 Report Posted August 12, 2012 My jaw would be a bit sore but once I started using the Strad Pad it really helped, now it's very comfortable to hold. They can be a bit more comfortable, but they make me feel more insulated and less intimate with the instrument. But from conversations with my peers, I pay attention to the vibrations of the instrument more than most. I've known several very very fine players(current or former principal players, a former concertmaster of a major orchestra...) who use them, so it's undoubtedly just a personal thing for me. I've been meaning for years to find some super long screws for my shoulder rest and go without a chin rest, personally.
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