The Good and Bad of Composite Violins

[Omobono]

There was a lot of speculation about the Axelrod collection and the integrity of some of the certifications, I read.

Three 'would-be' Strads are mentioned here.

composites

"Three Stradivari instruments in the NJSO collection are composites, meaning important parts have been replaced, according to the experts' review.

To be considered a complete instrument, a violin must have its original top, bottom, ribs, which are a violin's sides, and scroll, the decorative carving above the tuning pegs. Those parts have been replaced on many old violins over the centuries out of necessity, choice and greed.

A badly cracked top or bottom, for instance, would inhibit the vibrations that give a violin its voice. A poorly made top -- even master luthiers had bad days -- might be replaced by one of a different thickness and fit, improving sound. And an unscrupulous dealer might decide to take a whole Stradivari and split it into two or three Stradivari composites to maximize his profits, a common practice in the 19th century.

The three composite Stradivari violins in the New Jersey collection, the experts say, are the 1685 ex-Gagliano, the 1687 ex-Kloster Traunstein and the 1701 ex-Ferraresi."

That would be these three? (I do not claim to endorse the content of the article and probably would have phrased some of it differently myself.)

[duane88]

I recall a Strad cello that I glued some loose edges on, and the owner told me that it was a composite with a Lott top, and before I could get the question out of my mouth, the said that the Strad top on the Lott cello that had sold at auction in London some years earlier was the one that belonged-outline wise-with his cello. The dimensions of the instrument had been altered, so the outline fit, but the new size did not.

[Bruce Carlson]

Would this be the instrument in question... the "Court" Strad?

Laurie

It mentions an article in the Strad magazine of January 1978 concerning the court case.

I think this has come up in a previous thread somewhere.

Suitable name, no?

[jacobsaunders]

Nope. Realize this was not a certificate appraisal, but a verbal assessment if such a cert was even possible. I think he was more interested in the other violin I had with me (a Voller) for which he did write a cert.

Still, that was his suggestion suggestion. I'm open to others. What's it look like to you?

Having spent my childhood growing up in an english violin making household and all my adult life working in Germany or Austria, I have often noticed that the English, when they can`t place a fiddle, say "it`s German (Austrian)", and the Germans/Austrians say "it`s English". I had thought that, by now, I must have seen all the 18th. C. Viennese makers, even if I do have diffuculties telling them apart.

[lyndon]

The violin in this gallery has been deemed a composite by Beare. 18th c Viennese back and 19thc Italian front was his guess. No maker suggested for either.

Frankenfiddle

"frankenfiddle" looks like it has had some quite recent addition of varnish, whats with that?

[Guy_Gallo]

"frankenfiddle" looks like it has had some quite recent addition of varnish, whats with that?

Here's the fiddle before given to a luthier to clean and restore. The varnish had been worn nearly off in two spots.

[Guy_Gallo]

Having spent my childhood growing up in an english violin making household and all my adult life working in Germany or Austria, I have often noticed that the English, when they can`t place a fiddle, say "it`s German (Austrian)", and the Germans/Austrians say "it`s English". I had thought that, by now, I must have seen all the 18th. C. Viennese makers, even if I do have diffuculties telling them apart.

I have no stake in it being Viennese. It seems that the ribs, scroll and back are by one hand and the top another.

I'd love to hear any thoughts on either one.

[lyndon]

obviously your luthiers idea of cleaning and restoring involves putting a coat of new varnish over everything, although in years gone by this was the norm, todays makers mostly frown on this practice, as it is not true conservationship of the original finish, touching up the missing varnish under the bridge(usually caused by overzealous rosin buildup removal) is not a problem, its the overcoat of the whole instrument i would say is unneeded and adds nothing to the value(or devalues).

[Guy_Gallo]

It may look like he redid the entire top, but I don't think that's the case. I believe the parts worn raw were touched up and then the whole thing was "french polished" a bit.

[lyndon]

"french polishing" usually involves putting a coat of new varnish over the whole instrument, obviously the violin is a lot shinier in the after picture than the before one...... like i said french polishing is now frowned upon by most violin experts.

[jacobsaunders]

What's it look like to you?

For what it`s worth and since you ask, I think I would probably give up trying to work out what it could be/have been.

The scroll and pegbox seem to be a composite in there/themselves, which is extreemly offputing when trying to recognise anything and the varnish could be believed or not (except that it isn`t 18th. C. Vienna). Possibly the last chance (should you have any photos) would be to study the rib construction, which might at least give some clues as to what it isn`t. The curious fholes with the v. wide flaps might also lend themselves to some "process of elimination" excercise. Otherwise, I believe, when one has no idea, one should own up and say so.

[Guy_Gallo]

Thanks Jacob,

The scroll has a very poor cheek patch (which may be why it seems itself to be a composite). It has patches on both sides, but one side is markedly more amateurish than the other. So it looks like it was done at another time. Under UV light there are at least four distinct varnishes -- the back is pretty consistent save for an area around the button. The scroll has three -- the base dark red and each of the patches. And the front two -- the main body and what was added in retouch.

I don't have any photos of the inside construction if that's what you mean.

I suspect you are right it will never yield to ID. Though I am surprised that those honking big f-hole wings have not rung a bell with someone. They are pretty distinct.

But it's a beautiful player.