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John Juzek Violin


GoldenPlate

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...the one distinctive feature i've seen on what I would consider a "real" Master Art is....the scroll has a deep channel...

The scroll detail that you show is identical to the two Master Art violins that I have owned. I've seen it on a lot of others, but not on all of them. I wouldn't describe it as a "deep channel." The way I think of it is that the surface of the side of the scroll is rather flat, then it goes up very sharply at the edge. This detail is very unusual and distinctive, but I believe it's found on other violins besides Master Arts.

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It's quite clear to me that these violins were bought in from various Schoenbach makers and then labeled arbitrarily, perhaps on grounds of tone, less likely on grounds of workmanship. Some have one kind of scroll detail, some have funny shields in the back, etc etc ... the same violins crop up with other dealer labels, since whoever the makers were supplied a number of different buyers.

It's very comparable to something like Geronimo Barnabetti - I've seen at least 5 wildly different designs, all Mirecourt, all labeled by JTL, none made by a guy called Geronimo Barnabetti. The only difference would be that these violins were probably all made in the JTL workshops rather than out-sourced.

I don't know why everyone insists on trying to track down a maker when this is a dealer label. The only common factor I can see (apart from the provenance) is that they were retro-fitted with nice pegs with brass inserts.

Lyndon feels I lack experience (not being American) but I can assure you that identical violins appear in the UK, they're just not called John Juzek .... most often they have spurious Italian labels.

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The scroll detail that you show is identical to the two Master Art violins that I have owned. I've seen it on a lot of others, but not on all of them. I wouldn't describe it as a "deep channel." The way I think of it is that the surface of the side of the scroll is rather flat, then it goes up very sharply at the edge. This detail is very unusual and distinctive, but I believe it's found on other violins besides Master Arts

Brad: Thanks. I'd like to point out I also mentioned larger than normal rounded edging on the front and back. When you say found this on other violins do you mean other Juzek violins or other violins in general? If you mean other violins in general could you give a specific example?

It's quite clear to me that these violins were bought in from various Schoenbach makers and then labeled arbitrarily, perhaps on grounds of tone, less likely on grounds of workmanship. Some have one kind of scroll detail, some have funny shields in the back, etc etc ... the same violins crop up with other dealer labels, since whoever the makers were supplied a number of different buyers.

It's very comparable to something like Geronimo Barnabetti - I've seen at least 5 wildly different designs, all Mirecourt, all labeled by JTL, none made by a guy called Geronimo Barnabetti. The only difference would be that these violins were probably all made in the JTL workshops rather than out-sourced.

I don't know why everyone insists on trying to track down a maker when this is a dealer label. The only common factor I can see (apart from the provenance) is that they were retro-fitted with nice pegs with brass inserts.

Lyndon feels I lack experience (not being American) but I can assure you that identical violins appear in the UK, they're just not called John Juzek .... most often they have spurious Italian labels.

Martin: Could you give an example of violins with the features I illustrated? I'm not challenging you, I would really like to see whats similar on that side of the pond...fascinating! Thanks.

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Brad: Thanks. I'd like to point out I also mentioned larger than normal rounded edging on the front and back. When you say found this on other violins do you mean other Juzek violins or other violins in general? If you mean other violins in general could you give a specific example?...

I can't comment on the edge detail because I don't remember it on the Master Arts that I've seen. I'm not saying that it wasn't present -- just that I have no memory of it being there or not being there.

But the scroll detail really made an impression in my mind that remained. I meant that I have seen it on other Master Arts besides the ones that I've owned. And I have heard about it being present on other violins besides Master Arts, but I don't know the origins of these. Perhaps they were the anonymous Schoenbach instruments that Martin mentioned.

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  • 7 months later...

Re: color labels and authenticity, a modern color label would almost certainly be a 4-color (process) print. An original label, c. 100 yrs, would have been printed, in this case, in red, and black ink. A magnifier will show it to be one or the other. A modern print will show overlaying dots of cyan, yellow, magenta, and black.

With one of these?

http://cgi.ebay.at/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=330784872771

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  • 4 weeks later...

Now we know where Jesse has been getting his labels.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/330795973754?ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1555.l2649

This press is ideal for printing violin labels for anyone who is interested in such things. The sheet size is 52.5 x 77 inches. Assuming the average label is about 1 inch by 2 inches, more than 2000 labels would fit on the sheet with no bleeds and all dead cuts. Then, run a minimum number of sheets, say 10,000, and you will have more than 20,000,000 labels-plenty to relabel all the violins ever made... I would use Crane's Bond for the paper-which is the same stock used for US currency. (This press loves the soft cotton feel of that stock. :) Using stochastic printing (tiny random dots as opposed to larger screened dots) the final product should be indistinguishable from the originals, as long as expert, high-end pre-press techniques were employed.

However, before any of you decide to get into the violin label printing business, please be aware that disassembly, reassembly and rigging the press onto flatbed trailers (about 8 would be enough) should easily cost as much as the press. Installation would also require a 2 foot deep pit, inbedded steel mounting girders 50 feet long, and a reinforced concrete floor at least 2 feet thick. It is roughly the size and weight of a locomotive.

You would also need a digital front-end and a plate imaging device, which new might run several hundred thousand dollars. And, if you want to trim the labels out of the press sheets, you'll need an 80 inch paper cutter with programable micro-cut and air table, which you might find used for under $100,000.

Personally, I'd rather buy violins.

Jesse

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http://www.ebay.com/...984.m1555.l2649

This press is ideal for printing violin labels for anyone who is interested in such things. The sheet size is 52.5 x 77 inches. Assuming the average label is about 1 inch by 2 inches, more than 2000 labels would fit on the sheet with no bleeds and all dead cuts. Then, run a minimum number of sheets, say 10,000, and you will have more than 20,000,000 labels-plenty to relabel all the violins ever made... I would use Crane's Bond for the paper-which is the same stock used for US currency. (This press loves the soft cotton feel of that stock. :) Using stochastic printing (tiny random dots as opposed to larger screened dots) the final product should be indistinguishable from the originals, as long as expert, high-end pre-press techniques were employed.

However, before any of you decide to get into the violin label printing business, please be aware that disassembly, reassembly and rigging the press onto flatbed trailers (about 8 would be enough) should easily cost as much as the press. Installation would also require a 2 foot deep pit, inbedded steel mounting girders 50 feet long, and a reinforced concrete floor at least 2 feet thick. It is roughly the size and weight of a locomotive.

You would also need a digital front-end and a plate imaging device, which new might run several hundred thousand dollars. And, if you want to trim the labels out of the press sheets, you'll need an 80 inch paper cutter with programable micro-cut and air table, which you might find used for under $100,000.

Personally, I'd rather buy violins.

Jesse

There speaks someone who's been in the printing business...albeit, I'm sure, with rather smaller presses!

What impressed [npi] the socks off of me was the first time I saw a press that was laying down 6 colors plus varnish on solid bleach with a hotstamper and embosser/die-cutter off the end.

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We have a six color 77" with coater, so it can lay down 6 colors plus UV coating. The kind of press you refer to with foil, embossing and die cutting in-line must be used for greeting cards. We often run cards but send them off for finishing.

This kind of press is best for wall maps, point of sale posters, folding boxes, and large format litho labels. They have been used for pizza boxes, frozen food boxes, and tyvek printed products for the military (shhh). It was once used for military scrip, and baseball cards, magazines, art reproductions and displays.

The company specializes in large format and for a while had smaller presses also (28x40). We now run only a 5-color and a 6-color 77 inch. They are much newer (30 years newer) than the relic advertised. Its probably worth the asking price for scrap value alone.

Jesse

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The kind of press you refer to with foil, embossing and die cutting in-line must be used for greeting cards.

Folding cartons, actually. That press - there were a dozen others, mostly doing 3-4 colors on CCNB & CCKB but several that printed corg containers using handcuts or dicryl - seemed to run pretty constantly doing a surprising amount of foil, tricky die cuts, and flaps for food and toys. It wasn't the largest press, just the one that could lay down the biggest variety of inks/coatings in a single pass. At least I think it was the one that could do the biggest number -- the production floor was the size of a city block, so there might have been a press with more stations that I never saw. Certainly that one was more than enough to impress me!

I'm not sure why I'm surprised that the place you own (owned?) has larger presses. I guess I somehow got it in my head that yours is/was a decent-sized city job shop in Nashua or maybe Concord where most work would be 4 colors or fewer.and a really big job would be a corporation's annual report with diecuts and foldouts on high-quality stock that would maybe be sent out for finishing.

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  • 7 years later...
10 hours ago, PhilipKT said:

Well after reading this, I am convinced, I now know everything I got wrong and everything I got right about this mythological person.

They are still nice instruments, but now I’ve got a yen for a nice old Roth...

A Roth??  Not recommended.  Please read the (still slightly radioactive) locked threads linked below.  Out of the frying pan...........  :lol:  :rolleyes:

https://maestronet.com/forum/index.php?/topic/327207-pahdahs-roth/

https://maestronet.com/forum/index.php?/topic/327262-new-padahs-roth/

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12 minutes ago, Violadamore said:

A Roth??  Not recommended.  Please read the (still slightly radioactive) locked threads linked below.  Out of the frying pan...........  :lol:  :rolleyes:

https://maestronet.com/forum/index.php?/topic/327207-pahdahs-roth/

https://maestronet.com/forum/index.php?/topic/327262-new-padahs-roth/

Oh rats... tell me what I SHOULD have a yen for?

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22 minutes ago, Violadamore said:

A Roth??  Not recommended.  Please read the (still slightly radioactive) locked threads linked below.  Out of the frying pan...........  :lol:  :rolleyes:

https://maestronet.com/forum/index.php?/topic/327207-pahdahs-roth/

https://maestronet.com/forum/index.php?/topic/327262-new-padahs-roth/

A good pre-war Roth is nothing radioactive or to complain about, it's just an argue from older days about a notorious fraudulent Ebay listing.

Note that a Bubenreuth stamped Roth can't be from the prewar period. In these older days it was somehow funny to see how many posters were able to ignore obvious facts, but this had probably just anticipated later developments.

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Just now, Violadamore said:

Maybe something that won't raise issues of marketing hyperbole?   :)

When I made my comment I had not yet started reading the threads that you so kindly shared. Heavens aren’t they fascinating?

I’ve seen lots of Roth violins in Jay’s shop, Some were firewood, a few were quite nice.

Never seen a cello except for the bottom line stuff.

I found an Ernst Heinrich Roth Violin bow once, with the stamp in a lovely cursive font that Jay had never seen before. I’m sure it was not made by Roth or by anyone in particular, but It was in perfect condition and was a very nice bow. 

I’m very happy to have a chance to learn more. Thank you for sharing.

I think these firms that have been around for a long time should offer a paid research service. If you have a Colt firearm and contact Colt, For $75 they will tell you what your weapon is, when it was made and where shipped. They have excellent records going all the way back.

Roth, Metro, Stöhr Illner Riedl, Nürnberger, Seifert, and many another long-term company could make a pretty penny while protecting their own reputations by doing the same.

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57 minutes ago, Violadamore said:

A Roth??  Not recommended.  Please read the (still slightly radioactive) locked threads linked below.  Out of the frying pan...........  :lol:  :rolleyes:

https://maestronet.com/forum/index.php?/topic/327207-pahdahs-roth/

https://maestronet.com/forum/index.php?/topic/327262-new-padahs-roth/

So, does Roth get the AI randomizer response generator too?

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1 hour ago, martin swan said:

One of the most memorable violins I have ever played was a Bubenreuth EH Roth. It was a one-off Guarneri model from the 1960s - I still rue the day I sold it.

I think the higher grade Bubs usually sound better than the 1920s. Also like the Roman Tellers and yes, even the Juzek MAs from the 50s and 60s

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