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most interesting ebay fiddle in a while


deans

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is their any solid evidence that this is the same violin were comparing, ive been looking at the scroll pics and they dont seem the same???

A good point, Lyndon. Perhaps one of the Mn Computer wisards (I'm the opposite!) knows how to get the pictures next to eachother for comparison?

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At first sight the scroll would look different indeed, but the shadowing is different and it could easily be confusing. If you only consider the external shape of it things are not that clear cut. So yes, there is a doubt. the shape of the body corresponds quite well (again one ha to imagine the fingerboard).

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Many thanks: Although the second turn of the scroll has a corner at 11 o`clock on the repaired and not on the unrepaired........hmmm

It's this corner that confused me first. But if you look at the inside of the chamfer at this location (on the right picture) there is also a kind of angle that is enhanced by the shadow on the left picture. And at 12 o'clock there is dent that is present on both pictures.

there is also a very similar "wear" on the chamfer near the small hole of the D peg where the first turn starts.

Having said that, if one was to be presented with both pictures independently it would be difficult to say they are identical.

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I might be digressing, but many years ago in a dispute, I had to adudicate if a Geisenhof viola was one or not. I went to the Kunst Historische Museum in search of something to compare with and the then director, Stradner (this was pre-Hopfner) went with me into the store room, and let me search for Geisenhofs. Altogether they had 16, and Dr. Stradner locked me in his office with them all, whilst he went for lunch. Facit; I am the very last person who would laugh if anyone got Geisenhofs mixed up!

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I'm putting money down that they are the same, with heavy retouching, I think he even added some ink back to the scroll, especially on the back. Too bad the pics arent really comparable, it could be a good before-after set to show what retouching can do.

This whole story has become a bit fishy, I would never expected this instrument to appear on another message board. I thought if I ever saw it again it would be hanging in a high end dealer's shop here in the US with a $60K price tag, but with less retouching.

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Many thanks: Although the second turn of the scroll has a corner at 11 o`clock on the repaired and not on the unrepaired........hmmm

I chose to look at graphic rather than structural details (of course!). It was the varnish wear (outlined) that convinced me that it was the same fiddle--good as fingerprints any day.

post-5853-0-32247700-1337789852_thumb.jpg

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I have no doubts that it's the same instrument - much of the "discussion" on the German forum is between 2 people who are in fact the same individual (maybe 3), gradually making the "discovery" that this could be a real Geissenhof, and then promptly selling it to a fourth party (or not ...)

All very sordid, a bit like the retouch .....

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The presentation is a bit fishy indeed. I´m pretty sure it´s the same fiddle, and I expect the pics will be removed in some days, when the fiddle comes up for sale. But I am more interested this kind of varnish restoration. In the first pictures it looked much nicer to me. Isn´t it done a little bit old fashioned in respect of modern standards?

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Match - nice catch by the way!

I think the restoration is to do with the fact that the seller puts a lot of effort into nice photos ... when he's not pretending to sell things to himself on a forum.

At first glance most of the liuteriaitaliana stuff looks good enough to eat - you have to get about 5 feet away from the computer before you can actually see the instrument properly.

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At least he didn`t saw the original neck off. I realise that I`m a dreadful computer Luddite and have no idea about photography, but I have seen many pictures of one and the same fiddle that looked so compleatly different colour and varnish wise, that I would hesitate to form an opinion.

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i dont see any retouching at all, just a thick goo of some suspect orange red varnish over the top of everything, i thing i can tell you for sure if he put it back on ebay looking like it does now, he wouldnt get half as much....everyone would assume it was some kind of fake!!

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In my mind's eye I would have expected something a little more like this below for a Viennese school fiddle (purportedly Geissenhof 1809) with a bit higher arching :

34843.jpg

I didn't think a Geissenhof would look quite so classically Stadivarian as the one we are discussing, but I guess he evolved.

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Take a look at this one sold by Sothebys, it probably has less varnish on than the one in question but it looks fine to me and has character.The few Geissenhofs ive seen have been in similar states of varnish wear,so i would just take it as a feature of his work.

The one in question looks like it has had the varnish redissolved and pushed around ,losing all its texture. A simple sealing of the bare wear areas,as Jeffrey i think mentioned and maybe retouch of the biggest varnish scrapes on the back is probably all it needed. Whats with adding more black outline to the scroll,and where did that splodge of original varnish on the scroll eye go ?

Im just going by the photos and as Jacob rightly says ,the photos can look different and give a different impression to the real thing,but its the impression im getting.

sothebys

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