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Questionable Neck Graft/Peg Box Repair


charlesduffey
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Greetings! I have an instrument that I have had several shops look at and all seem to disagree on whether or not this repair needs to be left alone, be reinforced or whether it needs to be redone completely. Can anyone offer any advice? The repair seems solid but is not really reinforced in any way. Any suggestions would be very much appreciated. Here are some pictures.

der9.jpg

der33.jpg

der34.jpg

der36.jpg

der35.jpg

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what I see leaves little confidence as to its strength both in the repair and in the fit of the pegs, as to what it needs i would have to sit with it awhile and think about it while its in my hands. I had a similar type of problem on a lion's head scroll but that one was able to have the neck and pegbox pieces reassembled and glued without having a neck neck made, that one needed long cheek patches on each side to bridge the break and then peg bushings, it this one it looks like an old graft that went wrong so a new graft cut and fit to a new neck, then cheek patches over the wall crack and bushings - I see Mr. Holmes also looking at this perhaps he can offer more advice - the question remains is it worth the work? what is the rest of the violin like?

reese

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what I see leaves little confidence as to its strength both in the repair and in the fit of the pegs, as to what it needs i would have to sit with it awhile and think about it while its in my hands. I had a similar type of problem on a lion's head scroll but that one was able to have the neck and pegbox pieces reassembled and glued without having a neck neck made, that one needed long cheek patches on each side to bridge the break and then peg bushings, it this one it looks like an old graft that went wrong so a new graft cut and fit to a new neck, then cheek patches over the wall crack and bushings - I see Mr. Holmes also looking at this perhaps he can offer more advice - the question remains is it worth the work? what is the rest of the violin like?

reese

Thanks for the response, the violin is in pretty good shape with the exception of the pegbox. There is a piece of wood glued on the inside of the pegbox behind the crack nearest the head, but nothing on the graft/re-graft end.

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...Can anyone offer any advice?...

Cracks through peg holes like this always make me very nervous. If the value of the instrument does not warrant a major repair, or your budget does not allow it, I suggest spiral bushings, or some other peg hole reinforcements, at a minimum.

Alternatively, it looks like the instrument is not currently being played. If it's not going to be played, there is no reason to do anything.

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Alternatively, it looks like the instrument is not currently being played. If it's not going to be played, there is no reason to do anything.

Thanks for the advice. The instrument is one I don't have much invested in financially or emotionally so probably have room to do a major repair without being upside down financially. I do plan on playing the instrument provided I can afford to make the instrument playable. Fortunately the pegbox is the only apparent major repair required. Unfortunately it is looking more and more expensive.

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Ahhh... Reese caught me looking. I wasn't going to say anything but now I'm busted! :)

What I see on the lower portion of the pegbox looks as though it might be remedied by some careful restoration, bushings and new graft. I'd have

to see it in person to really know. The problem at the A peg, especially with the open area in the back of the pegbox and the lit entering the top of the pegbox corner, is a bit worrisome...but once properly aligned and closed, there are a couple techniques that can be employed to reinforce that area inside the box that I'd consider. The problem with external cheeks is the removal of original wood necessary to do them... and the techniques I'm thinking of don't remove too much original material (but do require special cutters).

Any way I look at it, I'm seeing a sizable repair bill, however. I'd advise the OP to weigh the cost benefits (have an appraisal figure before/after and a repair

estimate side by side before proceeding).

I'd not do something half-arsed, especially if the violin is going to be put into use.

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I'd do the same thing as Jeffrey, and have the repair assessed financially, seeing whether it makes sense for you to have the proper job done. It can be done, but I can see well over $1000.

This head appears to belong to the usual French "Derazey school"/ Duiffoprucgar labelled thing.

Do take everything into consideration before committing yourself, (such as body length, which tends to be on the massively long side on these, which reduces considerably your potential interested customers list.)

Depending on how much you originally invested, and also very importantly, the condition of the rest, it may still be worth doing it.

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Thank you all for your responses. As the "new guy" I was a little hesitant to post at all. I did not expect so many detailed responses from such an experienced crowd. This has really helped put this repair in perspective. I am going to start soliciting some quotes on the repair. I am outside of Atlanta so I have access to some very capable shops. The two shops I have already talked to are estimating around $1000-1500. The appraised value after repair would be substantially higher but, as Ratcliff mentioned, I am limited if I ever need to sell. I have always wanted a Derazey style instrument so it is worth it to me to at least take the chance.

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It looks like the variables on this project are adding up quickly, I must admit I did not scroll over to look at the a peg area and now that i see it it is one more problem to confront. I also wonder if the body length is long, I have seen these popular with the bluegrass/country players because of the head and because of the sound they get from these, limited market to be sure.

But as an alternative and I am aware that I may be opening myself up to comments, if you just want a playable instrument and assuming that the value of the instrument does not justify a full restoration of the original pegbox - it seems as though it has had one replacement neck already - perhaps getting a precarved neck from a supply house and fit and finishing it to match the old neck and pegbox and then with a couple of cuts with a thin saw graft the head onto the new pegbox in place of the scroll.

Reese

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Greetings! I have an instrument that I have had several shops look at and all seem to disagree on whether or not this repair needs to be left alone, be reinforced or whether it needs to be redone completely. Can anyone offer any advice? The repair seems solid but is not really reinforced in any way. Any suggestions would be very much appreciated. Here are some pictures.

++++++++++++

Use a set of " perfection pegs". The peg box is weak. If you use the conventional pegs it will be hard on the box wall. "perfection pegs" will not put

turning stress on the box. You can glue the pegs on the wall. The turning gears are internal mechanic of the pegs. So stress is internal.

What engineering solution is better than that?

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It looks like the variables on this project are adding up quickly, I must admit I did not scroll over to look at the a peg area and now that i see it it is one more problem to confront. I also wonder if the body length is long, I have seen these popular with the bluegrass/country players because of the head and because of the sound they get from these, limited market to be sure.

But as an alternative and I am aware that I may be opening myself up to comments, if you just want a playable instrument and assuming that the value of the instrument does not justify a full restoration of the original pegbox - it seems as though it has had one replacement neck already - perhaps getting a precarved neck from a supply house and fit and finishing it to match the old neck and pegbox and then with a couple of cuts with a thin saw graft the head onto the new pegbox in place of the scroll.

Reese

That's kinda where I was going with my post, but didn't want to go that far. The assumption is that this is an inexpensive Stainer copy?

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Not Stainer perhaps a Gaspar de Salo model, I would guess the body to be 14 1/4 inches or more?

I think it's one of the "Tieffenbrucker" type parlor fiddles, no?

I'd make sure you know exactly what the $1,000 to $1,500 estimate covers before you delve into this thing. That srtikes me as on the cheap side if a neck graft and crack restoration is involved.

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I think it's one of the "Tieffenbrucker" type parlor fiddles, no?

I'd make sure you know exactly what the $1,000 to $1,500 estimate covers before you delve into this thing. That srtikes me as on the cheap side if a neck graft and crack restoration is involved.

That's correct. The label has been removed so it's hard to determine just where the instrument originated. To clarify, that amount was only to repair the peg box. I don't think a graft was included in that price.

Edited by charlesduffey
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