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ingredient to harden varnish/colorant


fiddlewallop
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FW, regarding your original question I think if you add a well cooked resin like rosin or pine resin that should harden your varnish.

Do you know what the proportions of resin to oil were in your batch?

I would aim for 1:1 resin to oil and increase the resin amount to make it harden better. You could try cooking it in, well actually you will have to because any cooked resin that is cold is going to resemble a cake of rosin.

I'm not super expert at making varnishes but I have cooked a few.

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Hi Don,

Yes, I agree. The next batch will be a 1:1 ratio. The Hill varnish that I've made previously is heavy on the rosin side.

Also, I put the Botanical Oil Innv. linseed oil on a pane of glass and after 3 days, it did not dry. I also put Kremer linseed oil ($10 a liter variety) on a pane of glass, and after 2 days it has not dried either. Don't know what to think about this.

I'm sun thickening the Kremer oil now. Hopefully after a month this will improve its drying capabilities.

-FW

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Also, I put the Botanical Oil Innv. linseed oil on a pane of glass and after 3 days, it did not dry. I also put Kremer linseed oil ($10 a liter variety) on a pane of glass, and after 2 days it has not dried either.

The cheaper Kremer oil has a greenish tinge and has a lot of grunge. After each wash with water, when the phases have separated I freeze the lot (in a plastic bottle). The grunge collects in the aqueous phase and at the interface. After freezing the oil will pour off before the aqueous melts. (I am sure I picked this up from somewhere).

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Hi Don,

Yes, I agree. The next batch will be a 1:1 ratio. The Hill varnish that I've made previously is heavy on the rosin side.

Also, I put the Botanical Oil Innv. linseed oil on a pane of glass and after 3 days, it did not dry. I also put Kremer linseed oil ($10 a liter variety) on a pane of glass, and after 2 days it has not dried either. Don't know what to think about this.

I'm sun thickening the Kremer oil now. Hopefully after a month this will improve its drying capabilities.

-FW

fw,

Here is my standard test: Using an 8" long pane of glass, I put one drop on the glass and tip it so that the oil makes a streak the length of the glass. Put the glass in a sunny window at room temperature. In 2 - 3 days the thin oil at the bottom of the glass will feel dry and have a leathery surface.

Joe

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Thanks Janito,

I will try washing it and freezing it as you have said. I am sun thickening it now, but I suppose washing and freezing is better done first, and then proceed with sun thickening.

Thanks Joe,

This is the test that I performed the past two days. After I perform Janito's process, then I will perform this test again, and report back.

-FW

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tung oil is another drying oil (drying by oxydation) so you should be able to sunthicken it with no problem. And since it's an oil its freezing temperature will be well below that of water so you will be able to wash it the way it was described.

I remember also using a long container with a small hole at the bottom to separate mixes of 2 non miscible liquids with different density. the denser liquid rapidly settling down under the other. By opening the small hole at the bottom one was able to get rid of the denser liquid. Since water is denser (and doesn't mix with oil), it's easy to keep the oil alone.

Having said that I recently put some drops of perilla oil, linseed oil and tung oil inside a UV box. the tung oil was drying fast but it was the most wrinkled of the three by far.

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  • 3 weeks later...

After several tests comparing Botanical Oil Innovations linseed oil and Kremer Linseed oil, they both have exactly the same drying time. 3 days. I have done 4 side by side tests, and they dry in exactly the same amount of time.

Also, after bringing both oils slowly up to 350 degrees to see the impact on drying times for boiled oils, a strange thing happened. The Botanical Innv Linseed oil turned almost a clear as water. Well, water with a yellow tint to it. In other words, it turned very clear, clearer than it was originally. And Kremer oil turned dark green, almost black, and lost clarity. Seemed like odd results, but that's what I came up with. Both still dry exactly at the same rate.

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After several tests comparing Botanical Oil Innovations linseed oil and Kremer Linseed oil, they both have exactly the same drying time. 3 days. I have done 4 side by side tests, and they dry in exactly the same amount of time.

Also, after bringing both oils slowly up to 350 degrees to see the impact on drying times for boiled oils, a strange thing happened. The Botanical Innv Linseed oil turned almost a clear as water. Well, water with a yellow tint to it. In other words, it turned very clear, clearer than it was originally. And Kremer oil turned dark green, almost black, and lost clarity. Seemed like odd results, but that's what I came up with. Both still dry exactly at the same rate.

350...F or C?

Joe

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350 F

Although, I kept it a bit below 350 F. I kept it around 320-330.

And the batch that turned greenish-black, was brought up to 320 F fairly quickly, 1 hour, maybe 1 1/2 hours. The batch that became more clear, was brought up to 320 F very slowly. Probably over the course of 5 hours.

Kremer = left

Botanical Oil Inv = right

post-44521-0-60285800-1328316270_thumb.jpg

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the change of colour might also be due to some additive in the oil. I always thought heating the oil at that temperature would make it slightly darker not lighter. I only heated linseed oil bought in a supermarket 9can'v remember the mark but it was made to protect the wood) and it did darken after 1h at about 220 C

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And Kremer oil turned dark green, almost black, and lost clarity. Seemed like odd results, but that's what I came up with. Both still dry exactly at the same rate.

By 'lost clarity' what do you mean? If you shine a bright light through does the light appear dispersed/diffused?

If so, suggests that the heating 'coagulated' some proteins or similar compounds. I still had some white interface residue after 4 washings of the Kremer German linseed oil, but as you say, it dried OK.

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By 'lost clarity' what do you mean? If you shine a bright light through does the light appear dispersed/diffused?

If so, suggests that the heating 'coagulated' some proteins or similar compounds. I still had some white interface residue after 4 washings of the Kremer German linseed oil, but as you say, it dried OK.

There are a couple of things to consider...remembering that anything you do to the oil will affect the kind of varnish outcome you get.

The dissolved organic materials removed by washing the oil are basically junk left over from the pressing process.

Heating the oil can, and should, remove the proteins which are part of the oil structure. As you heat the oil you will observe the formation of a cloudy substance that looks like egg white...these proteins know in the trade as "break" products need to be removed before the oil will make a clear varnish.

The un-natural darkening of the oil sample that fw is showing looks to me like the effect of some additive getting overheated.

on we go,

Joe

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Heating the oil can, and should, remove the proteins which are part of the oil structure. As you heat the oil you will observe the formation of a cloudy substance that looks like egg white...these proteins know in the trade as "break" products need to be removed before the oil will make a clear varnish.

Thanks Joe.

So are you saying that all oil should be heated to remove 'break' products before proceeding to the combination with resins?

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