Joe Christian Posted January 13, 2012 Report Share Posted January 13, 2012 When you say "ready made" do you mean purchased or stuff you made yourself? I wouldn't mix purchased varnish unless I knew the process. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Yacey Posted January 13, 2012 Report Share Posted January 13, 2012 No, when I said ready made, I meant home made varnish that is prepared and ready for use. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonLeister Posted January 14, 2012 Report Share Posted January 14, 2012 FW, regarding your original question I think if you add a well cooked resin like rosin or pine resin that should harden your varnish. Do you know what the proportions of resin to oil were in your batch? I would aim for 1:1 resin to oil and increase the resin amount to make it harden better. You could try cooking it in, well actually you will have to because any cooked resin that is cold is going to resemble a cake of rosin. I'm not super expert at making varnishes but I have cooked a few. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fiddlewallop Posted January 14, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 14, 2012 Hi Don, Yes, I agree. The next batch will be a 1:1 ratio. The Hill varnish that I've made previously is heavy on the rosin side. Also, I put the Botanical Oil Innv. linseed oil on a pane of glass and after 3 days, it did not dry. I also put Kremer linseed oil ($10 a liter variety) on a pane of glass, and after 2 days it has not dried either. Don't know what to think about this. I'm sun thickening the Kremer oil now. Hopefully after a month this will improve its drying capabilities. -FW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Janito Posted January 14, 2012 Report Share Posted January 14, 2012 Also, I put the Botanical Oil Innv. linseed oil on a pane of glass and after 3 days, it did not dry. I also put Kremer linseed oil ($10 a liter variety) on a pane of glass, and after 2 days it has not dried either. The cheaper Kremer oil has a greenish tinge and has a lot of grunge. After each wash with water, when the phases have separated I freeze the lot (in a plastic bottle). The grunge collects in the aqueous phase and at the interface. After freezing the oil will pour off before the aqueous melts. (I am sure I picked this up from somewhere). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joerobson Posted January 14, 2012 Report Share Posted January 14, 2012 Hi Don, Yes, I agree. The next batch will be a 1:1 ratio. The Hill varnish that I've made previously is heavy on the rosin side. Also, I put the Botanical Oil Innv. linseed oil on a pane of glass and after 3 days, it did not dry. I also put Kremer linseed oil ($10 a liter variety) on a pane of glass, and after 2 days it has not dried either. Don't know what to think about this. I'm sun thickening the Kremer oil now. Hopefully after a month this will improve its drying capabilities. -FW fw, Here is my standard test: Using an 8" long pane of glass, I put one drop on the glass and tip it so that the oil makes a streak the length of the glass. Put the glass in a sunny window at room temperature. In 2 - 3 days the thin oil at the bottom of the glass will feel dry and have a leathery surface. Joe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fiddlewallop Posted January 14, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 14, 2012 Thanks Janito, I will try washing it and freezing it as you have said. I am sun thickening it now, but I suppose washing and freezing is better done first, and then proceed with sun thickening. Thanks Joe, This is the test that I performed the past two days. After I perform Janito's process, then I will perform this test again, and report back. -FW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonLeister Posted January 14, 2012 Report Share Posted January 14, 2012 Oh, well if the Hill stuff you made is 1:1 then try adding some more colophony (resin), something like the Kremer's, but cooked first. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarloBartolini Posted January 14, 2012 Report Share Posted January 14, 2012 Can Tung Oil be washed by he same (freeezing) process and sun thickened also? thank you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robertdo Posted January 14, 2012 Report Share Posted January 14, 2012 tung oil is another drying oil (drying by oxydation) so you should be able to sunthicken it with no problem. And since it's an oil its freezing temperature will be well below that of water so you will be able to wash it the way it was described. I remember also using a long container with a small hole at the bottom to separate mixes of 2 non miscible liquids with different density. the denser liquid rapidly settling down under the other. By opening the small hole at the bottom one was able to get rid of the denser liquid. Since water is denser (and doesn't mix with oil), it's easy to keep the oil alone. Having said that I recently put some drops of perilla oil, linseed oil and tung oil inside a UV box. the tung oil was drying fast but it was the most wrinkled of the three by far. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarloBartolini Posted January 14, 2012 Report Share Posted January 14, 2012 Tthanks, I just put it in the freezer - the container you mentioned reminds me of the water separator diesel filter enclosures.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Noon Posted January 14, 2012 Report Share Posted January 14, 2012 I recently put some drops of perilla oil, linseed oil and tung oil inside a UV box. the tung oil was drying fast but it was the most wrinkled of the three by far. I made some varnish with part tung oil, and had wrinkling problems. Perhaps I should add some Oil of Olay? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robertdo Posted January 14, 2012 Report Share Posted January 14, 2012 I made some varnish with part tung oil, and had wrinkling problems. Perhaps I should add some Oil of Olay? Varnish wrinkling might become the next market for L'oreal, or Botox... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarloBartolini Posted January 14, 2012 Report Share Posted January 14, 2012 I made some varnish with part tung oil, and had wrinkling problems. Perhaps I should add some Oil of Olay? Yes, the Wrinkle Revolution Complex with micro-fillers and light-diffusing particles works great Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joerobson Posted January 15, 2012 Report Share Posted January 15, 2012 Yes, the Wrinkle Revolution Complex with micro-fillers and light-diffusing particles works great Texture in a bottle.........think of the possibilities created by varying your brushes! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fiddlewallop Posted January 18, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 18, 2012 Well, the linseed oil from Kremers finally dried ($10 dollar variety, straight from bottle, no sun drying). Took 5 days to dry on glass pane. Could still scrape off dried linseed oil from glass with fingernail. We'll see how goes with the same oil after it is washed/frozen/sun thickened/bubbled/UVed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fiddlewallop Posted February 2, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 2, 2012 After several tests comparing Botanical Oil Innovations linseed oil and Kremer Linseed oil, they both have exactly the same drying time. 3 days. I have done 4 side by side tests, and they dry in exactly the same amount of time. Also, after bringing both oils slowly up to 350 degrees to see the impact on drying times for boiled oils, a strange thing happened. The Botanical Innv Linseed oil turned almost a clear as water. Well, water with a yellow tint to it. In other words, it turned very clear, clearer than it was originally. And Kremer oil turned dark green, almost black, and lost clarity. Seemed like odd results, but that's what I came up with. Both still dry exactly at the same rate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joerobson Posted February 3, 2012 Report Share Posted February 3, 2012 After several tests comparing Botanical Oil Innovations linseed oil and Kremer Linseed oil, they both have exactly the same drying time. 3 days. I have done 4 side by side tests, and they dry in exactly the same amount of time. Also, after bringing both oils slowly up to 350 degrees to see the impact on drying times for boiled oils, a strange thing happened. The Botanical Innv Linseed oil turned almost a clear as water. Well, water with a yellow tint to it. In other words, it turned very clear, clearer than it was originally. And Kremer oil turned dark green, almost black, and lost clarity. Seemed like odd results, but that's what I came up with. Both still dry exactly at the same rate. 350...F or C? Joe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Yacey Posted February 3, 2012 Report Share Posted February 3, 2012 I made some varnish with part tung oil, and had wrinkling problems. Perhaps I should add some Oil of Olay? Keep them guessing... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fiddlewallop Posted February 4, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 4, 2012 350 F Although, I kept it a bit below 350 F. I kept it around 320-330. And the batch that turned greenish-black, was brought up to 320 F fairly quickly, 1 hour, maybe 1 1/2 hours. The batch that became more clear, was brought up to 320 F very slowly. Probably over the course of 5 hours. Kremer = left Botanical Oil Inv = right Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robertdo Posted February 4, 2012 Report Share Posted February 4, 2012 the change of colour might also be due to some additive in the oil. I always thought heating the oil at that temperature would make it slightly darker not lighter. I only heated linseed oil bought in a supermarket 9can'v remember the mark but it was made to protect the wood) and it did darken after 1h at about 220 C Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fiddlewallop Posted February 4, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 4, 2012 it did darken after 1h at about 220 C Ah, ok, so then this might not be an abnormal result (the darkening, I mean). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Janito Posted February 4, 2012 Report Share Posted February 4, 2012 And Kremer oil turned dark green, almost black, and lost clarity. Seemed like odd results, but that's what I came up with. Both still dry exactly at the same rate. By 'lost clarity' what do you mean? If you shine a bright light through does the light appear dispersed/diffused? If so, suggests that the heating 'coagulated' some proteins or similar compounds. I still had some white interface residue after 4 washings of the Kremer German linseed oil, but as you say, it dried OK. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joerobson Posted February 4, 2012 Report Share Posted February 4, 2012 By 'lost clarity' what do you mean? If you shine a bright light through does the light appear dispersed/diffused? If so, suggests that the heating 'coagulated' some proteins or similar compounds. I still had some white interface residue after 4 washings of the Kremer German linseed oil, but as you say, it dried OK. There are a couple of things to consider...remembering that anything you do to the oil will affect the kind of varnish outcome you get. The dissolved organic materials removed by washing the oil are basically junk left over from the pressing process. Heating the oil can, and should, remove the proteins which are part of the oil structure. As you heat the oil you will observe the formation of a cloudy substance that looks like egg white...these proteins know in the trade as "break" products need to be removed before the oil will make a clear varnish. The un-natural darkening of the oil sample that fw is showing looks to me like the effect of some additive getting overheated. on we go, Joe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Janito Posted February 4, 2012 Report Share Posted February 4, 2012 Heating the oil can, and should, remove the proteins which are part of the oil structure. As you heat the oil you will observe the formation of a cloudy substance that looks like egg white...these proteins know in the trade as "break" products need to be removed before the oil will make a clear varnish. Thanks Joe. So are you saying that all oil should be heated to remove 'break' products before proceeding to the combination with resins? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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