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How thin is too thin around the f-holes?


lambert

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Hey all,

Im pretty certain I've made a major mistake today with my first violin project. I got the bright idea to do some further graduation after cutting the f-holes and I think I went overboard. How thin is too thin around the f-holes?

If I have made it too thin can I patch the area with a spruce veneer of some sort long grain to long grain?

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Hey all,

Im pretty certain I've made a major mistake today with my first violin project. I got the bright idea to do some further graduation after cutting the f-holes and I think I went overboard. How thin is too thin around the f-holes?

If I have made it too thin can I patch the area with a spruce veneer of some sort long grain to long grain?

What does it sound like?

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Anything below 2,4mm maybe? Marty wonders if you have had strings on the fiddle and have an opinion on how it sounds. Might be a good idea to test that before doing anything.

Ahh I see, I'm a ways away from having strings on it, I just want to fix any structural issues I may encounter due to these areas being too thin before I glue it all together. The wings are also around 2.25mm

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I would not suggest cleats on the wings at this time. Put it together and see how it sounds first. You always have the option of going back and take off the top and add something there later. The free movement of the wings contributes to the sound of the violin and putting on cross grain cleats before even knowing if there is any reason to try this, does not seem the correct impulse at this stage. Use this as a good lesson not to get too focused on one thing at the expense of another. All makers eventually pay some cost to learn this. In the end, it may sound good, and that is what is most improtant.

-Peter

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[q

+++++++++++

Even a trade violin is made by following a real violin by the side, why not checking one before using any tools. $2000 violins ( various thickness at some spots) are better than

a $500 violins ( uniform thickness) . Most time a cheap violin is easy to make uniform thin or thick. You can tell by just looking at them.

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Any numbers from 'great' violins? The stats are not often given for the wing thicknesses.

Here is some stats from 69 Strads. I do not know which are 'great' or not of them, but I'd assume that graduations has been collected from the better ones.

I have used the averages +/- one standard deviation. That should cover 68% of the variation. Using two standard deviations would give some 95% of the variation in the data. So e.g. taking the average of the upper right f-hole wing and subtracting two times the standard deviation should give a number close to the thinnest Strads in the recorded set: 2,6mm +/- 0,2mm : 2,6mm-0,4mm = 2,2mm. For the thickness just inside the f-hole 'nick': 2,6mm +/- 0,3mm: 2,6mm - 0,6mm = 2,0mm

The region we see here is also where we may expect the fiddles to have most repair and patches. North and south of the f-hole eyes, and in the central part of the plate. Most of them also have had their edges doubled.

post-25136-0-35513100-1326030166_thumb.jpg

Edited by Anders Buen
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Here is some stats from 69 Strads. I do not know which are 'great' or not of them, but I'd assume that graduations has been collected from the better ones.

Thanks!

The frequent half-doughnuts at the top and bottom of the Fs may make those numbers less likely to represent the original ones.

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Use this as a good lesson not to get too focused on one thing at the expense of another. All makers eventually pay some cost to learn this. In the end, it may sound good, and that is what is most improtant.

-Peter

Yeah, I've definitely learned not to lose my concentration. I was thinking about something other than what I was doing, and it doesn't take long to remove a millimeter of wood :-( Ahh well, I must continue forward, knowing that my first violins are going to be very important learning experiences, even if they turn out a little wonky.

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And here are the data for 49 del Gesús. Thicker, but the differences are smaller around the f-holes, especially the inner wings and sides.

I have used the averages +/- one standard deviation. That should cover 68% of the variation. Using two standard deviations would give some 95% of the variation in the data. So e.g. taking the average of the upper right f-hole wing and subtracting two times the standard deviation should give a number close to the thinnest del Gesus in the recorded set: 2,8mm +/- 0,2mm : 2,8mm-0,4mm = 2,4mm. For the thickness just inside the f-hole 'nick': 2,7mm +/- 0,2mm: 2,7mm - 0,4mm = 2,3mm

The region we see here is also where we may expect the fiddles to have most repair and patches. North and south of the f-hole eyes, in the central part of the plate and we may assume that all the edges have been doubled, at least on the most used instruments.

post-25136-0-25939000-1326032922_thumb.jpg

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Graduations aren't as important as you might think. In other words, don't worry about it.

tell that to the acoustics theoretichians and those that are basing their theory on experiences. The graduations bevome less important for a circular shell as a tube, but above the ring frequency even they do behave like a flat plate.

Graduations are a part of the equation. Period.

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tell that to the acoustics theoretichians and those that are basing their theory on experiences. The graduations bevome less important for a circular shell as a tube, but above the ring frequency even they do behave like a flat plate.

Graduations are a part of the equation. Period.

The OP had better worry about the arching than the graduations. Especially for his No. 1. BTW you can't calculate a Strad.

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The OP had better worry about the arching than the graduations. Especially for his No. 1. BTW you can't calculate a Strad.

The OP asked about thickness, so you are giving irrelevant information in this thread. Arching does not play a significant role for the f-hole wings, except for any tube like shape of the outer wings.

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Graduations and arching are closely linked. Changing the first without considering the other is a mistake. To omit the arching in a discussion about thicknesses is a mistake.

Not around the f-holes. You can have your opinion and I will have mine. Do you have any data to contribute on the arching?

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