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actonern

sore back making violins

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Chet,

Was this the device seen at many Chimneys Workshops ca. 2007? I had a photo but lost it. The device was like a collapsible lectern or book holder. The angle of elevation was controlled much like a beach chair's ratchet. Yes, it had carpet on the surface holding the work. If I recall, the fellow using it was from Bermuda.

Stay Tuned.

Mike

That's the one...I believe Evan brought them, though the fellow from Bermuda (nice gent) may have been using it. Several people experimented with it. I can't recall the name of the fellow from Bermuda...he had been a graduate of the Chimneys school, and I was especially interested to see how he fared as a luthier. Very pleasant man.

Chet

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If you really want to go after this, it can also be useful to keep a food diary, versus symptoms. We eat a lot of stuff today which wasn't a big part of the diet during most of human history, including large quantities of dairy products and grass seed.

I don't eat either of these much any more, and I'm a whole lot better off than I was 30 years ago. Might just be coincidence.

Amen! It's probably not just coincidence. Does it really make sense to drink something that was intended to nourish baby cows? I've decided that the answer for me is "no."

There are a lot of foods that we humans consume which are pro-inflammatory, and don't help muscle and joint problems one bit.

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Evan Smith showed me a change he made that saves the back. It is an "easel" of sorts, that sits on the workbench, and elevates the work to a 60 degree angle. He modified a work cradle by riddling it with grabber (drywall) screws, so that just the points came through, then coated the easel with indoor/outdoor carpet. the result is a very stable work surface. He demonstrated by throwing the work cradle (violin plate attached) at the easel from several feet away. It hit at an odd angle, but instantly gripped, and held.

Every time my back hurts, I remember that gadget, and think, "I oughta..." but never have gotten around to making one.

here you go: and I think this is one was Evan's:

DSC01405.JPG

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There it is, friends! Thanks, Joshua!

It had fewer of the screws than I thought I remembered, but that is good. You just want to remember they are there, and not grab indiscriminately. :)

The screws, on the other hand, grab very well, and the cradle does not move at all.

The angle is a good deal lower than I had remembered, too. But that could be whatever you decided you wanted, I s'pose.

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If you really want to go after this, it can also be useful to keep a food diary, versus symptoms. We eat a lot of stuff today which wasn't a big part of the diet during most of human history, including large quantities of dairy products and grass seed.

I don't eat either of these much any more, and I'm a whole lot better off than I was 30 years ago. Might just be coincidence.

Yep. I quit eating wheat, and consume very little dairy. Don't eat any prepared foods at all these days, and cook everything I eat. I tried it as an experiment, and felt so much better I decided to stick with it. One good thing is I eat really well. Bad thing is - no beer!

Similarly, I'm in better shape and feel better than I did 20 years ago. I live alone (wife's dead), and I was eating mostly packaged or restaurant food for too many years. Had almost forgotten what real, fresh cooked food tasted like, and how awful the prepared stuff is in comparison!

Wheat's in everything - Not just bread and cereals, but any glutamates, TVP, extenders and such, so it's easier just to eat fresh or frozen foods with no modification, and to make your own sauces unless you read the labels very carefully. One of my part time colleagues at work is a neurologist in real life, and when I told him about my "discovery", he rattled of a long list of symptoms that I had been dealing with, and which had improved since the change, so food sensitivities are apparently pretty well known in the medical world for those who pay attention.

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I think bench height/angle adjustment for the various tasks could alleviate some back problems. I´d seen a dentists chair converted into a workbench years ago so I Googled and came across this guy who by coincidence is a violin maker. http://www.theithacajournal.com/article/20111220/NEWS01/112200342/Made-Tompkins-Ithaca-Stringed-Instruments-grows-out-desire-better-sound

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Captain hook:

...Yes but if they surveyed the doctors, they would find out that they were better off as a result of the surgery : )....

Yes I agree... after surgery the doctors are better off!

I've had back problems in the past... to the point of having to walk with a cane ... here is what I have learned and now am generally problem free except when I get lazy & don't do my exercises.

1-Have your back checked out medically to be sure you have no underlying condition. and btw if you are diagnosed with degenerative discs... don't get too excited... I did, but then I found out almost everyone has it... so just take care of your back!

2- Get your back in shape... physiotherapy... the right exercise to strengthen and balance the muscles

3- Keep up the exercises... even when your back feels good

4-This book ended up being my salvation... http://www.amazon.com/Ultimate-Back-Book-Judylaine-Fine/dp/0773761241 It is a laymans understanding of what is going on... and it is the understanding part that helped me most.

Hope this helps... Mat

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Interesting stuff David, Nonado, Piaffe...I did the no dairy, no wheat, no meat, no processed foods etc. for years to the point that I forgot I was even doing it or why. Lately I fell off the wagon after discovering a historic coal oven pizza place very convenient to where I live. For the last 9 months or so I've been eating there once or twice a week and also a lot of restaurant food, sugar etc. The first thing I've noticed, besides lesser mental acuity, is I have a recurring case of athletes foot. I'm guessing my system is slowly getting inflamed and my circulatory system is becoming fungi friendly again. I also developed a strange lower back ache (which is where this thread started) and recently heard some of the backache stuff can be due to low level general inflamation caused by toxins and other immune triggering causes. Time to get back on the wagon! Thanks for the reminder!

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Ate some blintzes and Hamentaschen at our holiday party. Had a headache for 3 days. Coincidence?

When I avoid gluten, I have fewer headaches, less susceptibility to fungus (as you experienced), my skin is a lot less dry, a number of little skin and circulation problems cleared up, my brain is less foggy and the ADD isn't quite so bad, I don't have any joint pain, and I don't know whether it's the Qigong or the diet, but I seem to heal amazingly fast. Got several bad blisters Sunday on hands and feet. Gone by Tuesday. Scalded my thumb a few weeks back - poured boiling water on it. Big fat blister about 1 1/2 inches long. Gone the next day, all redness and tenderness gone in 2 days. Cuts not as fast, but still pretty fast.

Nightshade plants are another one that's suspect in arthritis. I can do without bread and beer and dairy, but it would be awfully hard to give up peppers and tomatoes. My knees used to be so bad I'd fall down if I tried to jog across a street, but now I can run several miles with no problem, so I'm gonna keep eating them "until I need glasses", as the old joke goes.

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My stepdad experienced similar results when he went on a gluten free diet.

It's something I think everybody should explore-not necessarily for health reasons-but because a lot of the alternative flours are quite flavorful. Much moreso than the wheat flour people usually usetongue.gif

Does take some experimenting though.

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Another thing which can be helpful is fish oil. Along with all its other benefits, it's a mild anti-inflammatory.

First learned about that from a pharmacist-violinist. Later, I learned from my daughter that everyone in the the psychology office where she worked was popping them, because it's an anti-depressant. Helps with "brain fog" too.

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David:

hmmm....thought I was taking fish oil in an Omega 3-6-9 supplement, turns out no...canola oil. My bad for changing brands.

While we're down this avenue, yet another angle is expressed in a book I read called: "Your Bodys Many Cries For Water". It's written by an Indian MD who cured many diseases and maladies through hydration. Fascinating descriptions of how it works. To me, a lot of it seems like plain common sense. He presented his findings to the AMA and they were not interested......

Book review link

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Another thing which can be helpful is fish oil. Along with all its other benefits, it's a mild anti-inflammatory.

First learned about that from a pharmacist-violinist. Later, I learned from my daughter that everyone in the the psychology office where she worked was popping them, because it's an anti-depressant. Helps with "brain fog" too.

How much? I take it, but I'm just wondering what dosage they found effective.

Regular exercise is an excellent antidepressant, BTW. Get those endorphins pumping........

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While we're down this avenue, yet another angle is expressed in a book I read called: "Your Bodys Many Cries For Water". It's written by an Indian MD who cured many diseases and maladies through hydration. Fascinating descriptions of how it works. To me, a lot of it seems like plain common sense. He presented his findings to the AMA and they were not interested......

Book review link

Don't you know that:

1: Water doesn't hydrate, according to the EEU.

2. Water is deadly poison. Not only does it cause water intoxication and hyponatremia, it's often fatal if inhaled, and if not fatal, can cause aspiration pneumonia, which can be life threatening.

If the world had any sense at all, water would be universally banned! Banned, I say!

Next, we'll be investigating he ominous correlation between birth and death..............

(Interesting book, BTW)

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Regular exercise is an excellent antidepressant, BTW. Get those endorphins pumping........

I used to walk to work (about a mile and a half) but last year I ended up driving for a number of reasons (laziness being one of them). I felt worse mentally and physically. Since last spring I have started walking again and improved considerably. That leads me to believe that no matter what your diet, regular excercise is a must. The human body is designed for extensive walking so that is what I plan to do from now on.If walking bores you, an mp3 player with an audiobook is a great companion. I try not to work at the bench at any particular task any more than 10 or 15 minutes at a time to avoid back, neck or shoulder strain. The multitude of differing tasks associated with violin making make this easy.

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Don't you know that:

1: Water doesn't hydrate, according to the EEU.

2. Water is deadly poison. Not only does it cause water intoxication and hyponatremia, it's often fatal if inhaled, and if not fatal, can cause aspiration pneumonia, which can be life threatening.

If the world had any sense at all, water would be universally banned! Banned, I say!

Next, we'll be investigating he ominous correlation between birth and death..............

(Interesting book, BTW)

Wow! I think there must be something funny in the water over there. Maybe water will be seen as a legitimate therapy once it is all privatized and costs a lot of money.

I just remembered, I think the book says people can have trouble with their backs because of dehydration. The spinal discs have fluid in them and if they dry out....back trouble...

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How much? I take it, but I'm just wondering what dosage they found effective.

Regular exercise is an excellent antidepressant, BTW. Get those endorphins pumping........

The psych people were taking one capsule per day (about one gram). I think this was based on studies they'd read, and they hadn't done any experimentation themselves with dosage.

The pharmacist was using canned salmon (this pre-dated wide availability in supplement form) and I think he was recommending at least one can per week, which is about 21 grams.

I take about 7 grams per day (spread out) of "molecularly distilled" fish oil, with a daily total of 1800 mg of EPA and 1200 of DHA. This level will interfere with normal sleep for some people, so it can be helpful to get it in by mid afternoon. Yes, take a bunch at once, and you can actually get jacked from the stuff!

It seems to be important to get the right product. They aren't all created equal, and it has also been recommended to buy from a source with high turnover for freshness. I use "Trader Joe's Molecularly Distilled Omega-3 Fatty Acids. I've tried some other brands where I didn't feel the same short-term effects.

Overview of some studies relating to stroke and heart disease:

http://www.oilofpisces.com/bloodcoagulation.html

A short article on fish oil and inflammation:

http://news.sciencemag.org/sciencenow/2010/09/how-fish-oil-fights-inflammation.html

A short article on mental effects:

http://www.lapsi.org/mental-clinic/crisis-mental/fish-oil-capsules-and-your-mental-health/

Note: I just grabbed these articles because they came up easily in a search just now, and were fairly short. There are much better and more thorough ones.

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The psych people were taking one capsule per day (about one gram). I think this was based on studies they'd read, and they hadn't done any experimentation themselves with dosage.

The pharmacist was using canned salmon (this pre-dated wide availability in supplement form) and I think he was recommending at least one can per week, which is about 21 grams.

I take about 7 grams per day (spread out) of "molecularly distilled" fish oil, with a daily total of 1800 mg of EPA and 1200 of DHA. This level will interfere with normal sleep for some people, so it can be helpful to get it in by mid afternoon. Yes, take a bunch at once, and you can actually get jacked from the stuff!

It seems to be important to get the right product. They aren't all created equal, and it has also been recommended to buy from a source with high turnover for freshness. I use "Trader Joe's Molecularly Distilled Omega-3 Fatty Acids. I've tried some other brands where I felt no difference.

Thanks - I'll check into it.

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I am going to put in a message here for all those with back and other muscle/joint problems. If you live north of the parallel that runs through San Francisco, the incident ultraviolet radiation from the sun is not sufficient to convert enough cholesterol in your skin to vitamin D, the only source of vitamin D to you other than in your diet. I am an endocrinoligist and find many patients in my area. Northern CA, are severely vitamin D deficient, including myself. If your are deficient, you cannot absorb calcium normally from your diet, and your body reacts by absorbing calcium from your bones (due to secondary hyperparathyroidism for those in the know). The test for this is at 25-hydroxy vitamin D level, that your doc can order. Taking too much vit D is dangerous!!!

You may think this is off topic but vitamin D replacement has very significantly improved my bench time and reduced my need for pain medication.

Doc

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Don't you know that:

1: Water doesn't hydrate, according to the EEU.

2. Water is deadly poison. Not only does it cause water intoxication and hyponatremia, it's often fatal if inhaled, and if not fatal, can cause aspiration pneumonia, which can be life threatening.

If the world had any sense at all, water would be universally banned! Banned, I say!

Next, we'll be investigating he ominous correlation between birth and death..............

(Interesting book, BTW)

I hope this is a joke!! You can't live without water. In a normal person, about 42L of your body is water. Your body maintains a normal sodium (salt) concentration by balancing your water intake/excretion and your salt (sodium) excretion. Hyponatremia (low sodium level = low Na++) can be fatal. It occurs if you can't pee enough water and drink only water, or if your have one of many conditions that prevent your body from excreting water normally (hypothyroidism, adrenal insufficiency, Anti-diuretic hormone excess from many causes etc. etc.)

To prevent low sodium levels, the body can pass almost unlimited amounts of water you drink, as much as 25 Liters/day, without hyponatremia. However, if you vomit or have diarrhea or are salt depleted for other reasons, your body can't pass the water, and you can develop fatal hyponatremia. In a normal person your thirst mechanism prevents you from drinking too much water.

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I hope this is a joke!! You can't live without water. In a normal person, about 42L of your body is water. Your body maintains a normal sodium (salt) concentration by balancing your water intake/excretion and your salt (sodium) excretion. Hyponatremia (low sodium level = low Na++) can be fatal. It occurs if you can't pee enough water and drink only water, or if your have one of many conditions that prevent your body from excreting water normally (hypothyroidism, adrenal insufficiency, Anti-diuretic hormone excess from many causes etc. etc.)

To prevent low sodium levels, the body can pass almost unlimited amounts of water you drink, as much as 25 Liters/day, without hyponatremia. However, if you vomit or have diarrhea or are salt depleted for other reasons, your body can't pass the water, and you can develop fatal hyponatremia. In a normal person your thirst mechanism prevents you from drinking too much water.

Yep! just some silliness in response to officialdom's idiocy...goes right along with the DHMO spoof.

But the ruling was not a joke...those who made the rule are.

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I hope this is a joke!! You can't live without water. In a normal person, about 42L of your body is water. Your body maintains a normal sodium (salt) concentration by balancing your water intake/excretion and your salt (sodium) excretion. Hyponatremia (low sodium level = low Na++) can be fatal. It occurs if you can't pee enough water and drink only water, or if your have one of many conditions that prevent your body from excreting water normally (hypothyroidism, adrenal insufficiency, Anti-diuretic hormone excess from many causes etc. etc.)

To prevent low sodium levels, the body can pass almost unlimited amounts of water you drink, as much as 25 Liters/day, without hyponatremia. However, if you vomit or have diarrhea or are salt depleted for other reasons, your body can't pass the water, and you can develop fatal hyponatremia. In a normal person your thirst mechanism prevents you from drinking too much water.

Doc: Unfortunately it is no joke. Europe used to have more stringent laws than the U.S. protecting the health of it's population....like forbidding genetically modified foods. The U.S. couldn't sell meat to them (low standards....mad cow, hormones, antibioltics, etc) and they even had laws warning about the hazards of phosphates in soda. Lately, if I'm not mistaken, they have banned the sale and use of vitamin supplements, allowed GMO's (?) and now this ruling regarding water, and who knows what else. There seems to be a sea change. Could be a result of free trade or who knows what else. Unfortunately some of these things may happen here in the US too.

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