Varnishing & Dust Particles...

[captainhook]

Try getting a nice, stable orange mix, then add a little of a transparent blue tube paint. It doesn't take much blue. I don't go for brown normally, but this works with water soluble dyes.

I also have some brown oil-soluble powder that I got from International Luthiers years ago. I used it on one revarnish job that turned out pretty transparent, as I recall. And I also have some dark brown liquid extract from International violin. I found that I have to be very careful not to overuse that stuff or the second coat will take the first one off.

[FredN]

Perhaps the following from the new Ashmolean book might be of interest:

"On the 'Messie' it is obvious that the varnish has flowed smoothly on to the prepared surface and dried naturally, incorporating quite a lot of dust and natural debris in the process: there are visible clusters of dust particles gathered around the pegholes in the head and on the rib corners."

I make my own fossil copal varnish, between coats i polish/sand with damping water and pumice,1200 sandpaper or a wood block, checking with a shadow light for bumps. when it dries i brush and wipe it clean. I repeat this process untill i'm satisfied with a coat. Takes around a day between each cycle. I use just about any brush for the oil varnish is pretty much self-levelling. I don't make any attempt to clean the area.

[TimRobinson]

Not that it is significant, bu I have not had any great problems with dust. I used to varnish in the bathroom bu more recently have been doing it more or less outdoors. I have had the occassional mozzie get stuck - but they polish out. On my number three I found that some glitter flakes had got stuck to the back. One of my daughters used to make her own, quite idiosyncratic, birthday and Christmas cards which usually featured a lot of glitter. The tiny flakes clearly carried some distance in the breeze. Now I consider them to be like the micro dot security they spray in some cars :-)

Tim

[Joe Christian]

Hi Ernie,

From the sound of your original post, it sounds like you might be obsessing a bit - the optivisors were the giveaway I think most "oil users" have been through this at some point. You are at a cross roads and you can choose to come to peace with the dust or wage war against it. Your personality will dictate your direction. Personally, I do what I think is reasonable to avoid dust and then accept the final result. If it was good enough for Strad...

I started using thick oil varnishes over 15 years ago and have been collaborating with other makers who I've shown my methods to. I think that all of them do a sensible amount and have come to peace with the dust that remains. Rubbing it out at the end of the process if they choose to. That's what I do. The issue here is that the nips can be gummy and make a mess. Make sure the varnish is dry if you do this.

Some things to keep in mind are that you'll probably never get all of the dust off of a sanded/dusty surface. You should try, but life is short - or as another violin making friend likes to say - "I've got TV to watch". Rubbing the surface will certainly generate static which will attract more dust. Clean your brushes. I clean my brushes just before varnishing. I use water and soap, then a short soak in fresh denatured alcohol. A bit of violent shaking and a short time of sitting and they're dry enough for varnishing. The more you work the surface with the brush, the more dust issues. I have a large container that I keep my brushes in. I had to cut a few inches from the handles so they would fit and allow me to close it.

Your varnish itself can also have particles in it. There are old references to filtering varnish or additives that were supposed to help drying and settling of cruft. Oilier varnishes are more prone to dust nips.

Something I've always pondered is adding detergents or soaps to break the surface tension. I suspect that when you read about adding ear wax to things, that this might be the reason. I've tried a few things, but never pursued it very far choosing a KISS approach instead. Another idea I've mused but never bothered trying is a grounding wire to discharge any static on the violin.

Anyhow, hope some of this helps. Much of it was already mentioned, but maybe something wasn't.

Good luck.

--Joe

[Janito]

Something I've always pondered is adding detergents or soaps to break the surface tension. I suspect that when you read about adding ear wax to things, that this might be the reason. I've tried a few things, but never pursued it very far choosing a KISS approach instead. Another idea I've mused but never bothered trying is a grounding wire to discharge any static on the violin.

From Northern Renaissance Instruments:

VARNISH LEVELLING ADDITIVE

A small amount of this additive, mixed into any oil varnish, helps it to go on smoothly. It works by reducing the surface tension, and more importantly, variation in the surface tension of the varnish. It allows very thin coats of high colour density to be put on evenly with less skill and effort. Brush marks flow out and the thickening of varnish around dust particles is greatly reduced. It is a modern chemical made up of fluorinated alkyl ester.

The additive is supplied as a thick syrup. It needs thinning with the varnish solvent (turpentine or white spirit) before it can be handled conveniently. (By leaving this to the user, we save the added costs of extra weight and special packing of flammable materials).

Add 3 parts of solvent to one part of additive. The solution will keep indefinitely. Either keep it in a tight container so no solvent evaporates, or mark the level of the remaining material on the bottle after each use so that evaporated solvent can be replaced before the next use.

Add the additive solution to the varnish so that the final concentration of additive in the varnish is between half and one per cent. To achieve this, mix one part of prepared additive solution into between 24 to 48 parts of undiluted varnish. We suggest you experiment to find how much leveller you need for best results. More than 1% does not increase the levelling effect. Much more than 1 % can lead to undesirable effects. You may also find that the amount of additive needed can vary from batch to batch of our varnish. This additive does not affect the keeping qualities of a varnish in any way that we know of. Yet it can make sense to delay adding it if one is storing the varnish for months or years. Like wine, the properties of our varnish improve with keeping. On maturing, clarity improves, and it often spreads very well without any additive.

http://www.nrinstruments.demon.co.uk/Varn.html

[Joe Christian]

Thanks Janito.

I have messed with that a little, as well as liquin and a few other modern additives on test strips. Unfortunately, I'm very bent on using traditional materials when it comes to my instruments. Thanks again for the good input.

--Joe

[Guest]

.