Varnishing & Dust Particles...

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[Janito]

Are you sanding between coats? That can leave a tenacious dust on the surface.

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[Don Noon]

Clean room bunny suit and cap. You didn't mention your choice of disintigrating clothing and any dandruff problem, but those two should cover it.

I use my home-made portable flow bench, which seems to help, especially since I have to varnish in the same small space where I have my bandsaws, sanders, and jointer... among other things.

[actonern]

Central heating at this time of year moves a lot of air around as well...

[Darren Molnar]

How dry is your workshop? Rubbing things between coats can make things worse sometimes.

[lyndon]

sometimes using only once cheaper brushes, is cleaner than reusing expensive ones, dont get the kind whos hairs fall off, though.....

[Evan Smith]

if you have a small room to work in,,bathrooms great,

you can take a spray bottle that is capable of making a very fine mist,

point it toward the ceiling and mist the whole room a couple of times,

it won't be enough to get the ceiling wet, the idea is to mist the air from top to bottom,

spray up and it will float down taking all the dust with it.

so,,spray,,then get out of the room,shut the door.

I have cleared the air in a corner area of big dusty shops this way,,

and got the varnish done before the rest of the dust found me,,it really works.

now while the mist is settling, litely mist your apron,and arms are washed,

I use a nylon soft paint brush,a good one,like a purdy latex 3"

run it in some water then slap the water out of it on somthing clean.

Brush the fiddle off get the pegbox clean and the dust out of all the cracks..and anything lurking around the inside edge of the ffs.(may have to repete a couple of times)

The moisture will remove all the dust and discharge the static charge that is attracting the dust.

(then throw a chain around the scroll and let it drag the ground to keep it discharged,,like paint'in a car)

Once it's clean slip it in the room, on the prepared spot..

Then when you have been purfied and have on your little booties,,enter and varnish.

I blow with air and vacume also,,and if you look carefully while you are blowing,

dust and particles will be sticking to the out side like a magnet.

If you keep it up it would look like a furball fiddle

Moving air causes a static charge to form,,in certain conditions ignition can occur inside a vaccume hose, due to the proper mixture of dust and static sparks.

Your description of your varnish sounds just like mine used to.

Now my varnish is so clean I can almost buff after the final coat.

after spending megga bucks on brushes

I now use an artists gold nylon fan brush to varnish with,,and it lays it on smooth and thin and very even, 3 to 6 bucks,,,,I buy em by the dozen,,,when I'm done I stick em in a cup of olive oil and when I have a few saved up then I wash em all at once,,,

Evan

http://fiddlehack.com

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[Evan Smith]

It stays cleaner if you finish it with the brush (damp)

When you wipe it dry then it can aquire a charge. Under a 300 watt halogen light,,

I could see all the dust in the air moving toward my fiddle,,

just like a magnet.

That is when I learned that letting it dry without rubbing it would prevent "the charge"

And to mist the air..to remove the dust.

If the water is really hard you might want to use distilled.

This same type of brush makes the best stipling brush I've found,,It doesn't shed,

neither do the nylon fan brushes. they last for years.

you're welcome

[James M. Jones]

I just, this last month, built a shop air cleaner and am amazed at the difference in dust overall....I goggled DIY air cleaner ..they are easy to build cheap with salvage plywood and can be configured any way you want...Mine is a huge 3 foot cube. I haven't done Varnish yet,but is why I built it.

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[James M. Jones]

Darren...my shop is pretty dry this time of year...around 35-40% humidity...

Thanks for the visual...I never considered static electricity and I'm sure now that is probably the main problem...appreciate it!

-Ernie

yea I agree, something to consider for sure.

[fiddlewallop]

I use my home-made portable flow bench, which seems to help, especially since I have to varnish in the same small space where I have my bandsaws, sanders, and jointer... among other things.

Ernie, I have had the same problem with varnishing furniture in the past. It's very irritating to constantly have this problem. The only way that I have found to have a truly dust-free varnish job is to set up a flow bench, as Don has mentioned. It seems like a lot of work, but I think, if you want to do it right, this is the only real way that I've found to make it work. Your efforts will be evident in the lengths that you go.

[Janito]

Nothing wrong with dust, unless it prevents the varnish from spreading properly on the surface.

The Cremonese did not have laminar flow hoods for varnishing - crud is a feature of their varnishes.

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[fiddlewallop]

Nothing wrong with dust, unless it prevents the varnish from spreading properly on the surface.

Preventing the varnish from spreading properly is my concern. This is what prompted the use of the flow hood. As long as the varnish has a smooth surface, I am not concerned with dust.

Perhaps the Cremonese did not have a flow hood, but I wonder if they could have rigged up a similar contraption. Maybe a box with cheese cloth covering holes. Something to that effect.

[fiddlewallop]

Can you provide some photo's and info on building the set-up?

Sure. Heading back into my mycological days, here...

I think all you need to do really, in order to build a proper flow hood is to create a box (in this case, large enough to house a violin or two). I'd install hooks on the top in order to hang the instruments from the scrolls. Then cut two holes in either side of the box, and duct tape HEPA filter material over the two holes. This will filter out fine dust particles, but still allow for air flow. Add a hinged door to insert the violin and other materials. Then, take an old computer fan, clean it off thoroughly with window cleaner, or denatured alcohol. Attach the fan to one of the holes so that it is sucking /in/ air /after/ it has been drawn through the filter. Therefore, the fan will be attached to the inside of the box, and duct tape around the fan to ensure a good air tight seal. Then, cut two holes for hands so that you can insert large rubber gloves. You'll need rubber gloves that go up to your elbows. Make sure that the gloves are large enough to reach all the corners of the box, because there's nothing more annoying then dropping something in a corner that you can't reach because the gloves are too short. Sometimes you can find these types of gloves at fish supply stores (for large outdoor water gardens). You don't necessarily need to duct tape the gloves to the box quite yet. Then I'd add tin foil to the walls, and insert a UV light and a black light to the ceiling and floor of the box. Insert all of your materials, such as the violin, your varnish, brush, and whatever other materials you might need. Make sure you have cleaned off all of your materials well with denatured alcohol, so that they're sterile. Then spray the air purifying spray in the box, and run the fan with only one fan/filter attachment for a couple days to get all of the dust out of the box. You're aiming to achieve a sterile environment inside the box. Then, after running the fan for a few days, almost all of the dust should be removed, then attach the second filter to the other filter hole that you drilled to "seal" off the box from outside air. You're left with an essentially sterile environment. Then you can duct tape the rubber gloves to the box, and begin varnishing.

If you have ever visited a laboratory, they will often have these types of flow hoods to prevent contamination of their work. Of course, they have very expensive, proper labratory versions which cost 200k, but what you are constructing here is essentially the same thing.

Of course, this set up will be problematic if you generally use your fingers to apply the varnish. But, I suppose, instead of using the gloves, you could just keep the hand holes sealed off until you are ready to use the box. Then when you are ready to use the box, thoroughly wash and scrub your hands and arms up to your elbows (ensure all loose arm hairs are scrubbed off the best of your ability), then quickly take off the hand hole covers, insert your hand and arms as quickly as you can to prevent contaminated air from entering and begin your work. You'll also need a window so you can see what you're doing obviously. That's a consideration when you pick your building materials. For mushroom work, I just taped two clear, large rubbermaid containers together so that I could see what I was doing. I suppose you could use plexiglass, but that can get quite expensive.

Although this seems like a lot of work, you can build such a box in the course of a weekend, quite cheaply. For your effort, you'll be guaranteed a perfect, dust free finish.

-FW

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[joerobson]

Interesting...reminds me of a sandblasting cabinet...great explanation

Thanks

Ernie,

Does the junk in your varnished surface get worse as it is drying?

Joe

[Don Noon]

Can you provide some photo's and info on building the set-up?

Old blower to the right, blows air into a shallow box with a large filter. Some plexiglass panels on the sides and top help direct the flow, and let light in. The plastic sheeting I can fold down to keep the area clean when I'm not working there. Everything folds up and goes on a shelf when I'm done.

[Don Noon]

The Cremonese did not have laminar flow hoods for varnishing - crud is a feature of their varnishes.

Sorry, I prefer the unauthentic, crudless look.

[fiddlewallop]

Wow, beautiful hood Don. I like the collapsible design. Never thought of that.

[Don Noon]

Never thought of that.

I spend way too much time thinking, and not enough time making chips.