Pegs set too far out?

[Jeff White]

I'm returning to violin work after a long time. Blown away by all the info on this site and generosity of it's

members. Wish I had this 15 years ago when I was doing alot more work. Anyway this pic posted is a violin that I just

put pegs on that look to be very akward. Other than the fact that whomever bushed them the second time got them crooked, they seem to be set too far out. I used my typical 16mm from collar to pegbox, but this looks odd. Do any of you minimize this measurement

with pegboxes that are not quite as wide?

[Mat Roop]

I'm returning to violin work after a long time. Blown away by all the info on this site and generosity of it's

members. Wish I had this 15 years ago when I was doing alot more work. Anyway this pic posted is a violin that I just

put pegs on that look to be very akward. Other than the fact that whomever bushed them the second time got them crooked, they seem to be set too far out. I used my typical 16mm from collar to pegbox, but this looks odd. Do any of you minimize this measurement

with pegboxes that are not quite as wide?

Can't see any pic... Cheers, mat

[Don Noon]

I used my typical 16mm from collar to pegbox, but this looks odd.

Johnson/Courtnall specify 9 - 10 mm from collar to box, which looks right to me. So 16mm would look odd, I'd think.

[robertdo]

I often wondered if these 10mm refer to the same thing as the 16mm (which I also found in some other sources). I wonder if the measurement in one source refers to the bottom of the small "rings" (around 10mm) and to the top of these small rings in the other source, which would indeed be around 16mm total.

[Don Noon]

This is the way I understand it, and it's the easiest way to measure.

[Jeff White]

My mistake, just realized that the "Strobel" measurement said box to edge of thumbpiece 16mm, that would agree with the 10mm from box to peg collar. Thanks. Does look funny.

[jacobsaunders]

This is the way I understand it, and it's the easiest way to measure.

I learnt (and still do) 12mm, measured as described by Don Noon above, so I expect 16mm would look excessive.

Peter Schidloff once famously told my father that his Viola "Looked like a bloody airplane" for fitting pegs like that.

[actonern]

Beautiful work Don! Can I get that varnish formula??? :

[David Tseng]

I also use 12mm on my new violins. I avoid drilling too big holes on the pegbox and give the pegs more longevity.

[David Burgess]

I usually measure total length, including whatever ornament might be at the end of the peg.

37mm won't fit in some violin cases without a healthy push, so a little under, like 35mm might do the job.

[Jeffrey Holmes]

I use a general guideline of 11 mm for newer violins, a little less for older ones. If I'm using wild pegs, I adjust things a bit.

The photo in question has boxwood pegs. To me, unless the shafts get colored, they'll look odd no matter what the length.

[jacobsaunders]

If I'm using wild pegs

I'm just wondering what a "wild peg" could be?

[Jeffrey Holmes]

I'm just wondering what a "wild peg" could be?

Those with ornaments that stick out well past the head of the peg, as in the photo posted by Don above...

[Michael_Molnar]

I now follow the prescription mentioned by Jeffrey: 11m for new.

I remember Ed Campbell recommended 10mm for G and E, 11mm for D, and 13mm for E. The result is that the peg knobs appear in a line. I no longer do this.

Stay Tuned.

Mike

[Brad Dorsey]

I usually measure total length...

Me, too. I don't pay any attention to the distance to the collar.

[Jeff White]

"The photo in question has boxwood pegs. To me, unless the shafts get colored, they'll look odd no matter what the length. "

Jeffrey, I also noticed this and wonder what anyone uses to color them. Does look odd.

[Brad Dorsey]

"The photo in question has boxwood pegs. To me, unless the shafts get colored, they'll look odd no matter what the length. "

Jeffrey, I also noticed this and wonder what anyone uses to color them. Does look odd.

The one time I used boxwood pegs I took the suggestion that was made on this forum to use nitric acid. It worked pretty well, but it's really nasty stuff.

[Jeffrey Holmes]

Jeffrey, I also noticed this and wonder what anyone uses to color them. Does look odd.

Some fume with nitric acid, others use hair dye (a little tricky to keep from becoming blotchy, but once you get it down, pretty decent results), I've seen others use an airbrush.

[Ron MacDonald]

Some fume with nitric acid, others use hair dye (a little tricky to keep from becoming blotchy, but once you get it down, pretty decent results), I've seen others use an airbrush.

I've a friend, a well known luthier, who uses a brown, felt tipped pen to colour boxwood pegs. I've seen the results and they are excellent. I'd always assumed that he used nitric acid.

[Giovanni Corazzol]

Jeff:

Hi!

at this time, you have probably fixed the pegs.

I have noticed from 1st photo that the string holes are already too far, now obviously you have been obliged to re-drill them after shortening the shafts.

I hope that this time, you have made them not past the half way, between the pegbox walls, starting from the collar side of the peg. Tuning will be easier.

Personally: I don't use this model of pegs anymore. First, the peg thumbpiece has an odd shape. The conical section is not very handy.

There are similar pegs with flat thumbpieces, or slightly concave, which give more control, and look better in my opinion.

Secondly, this kind of wood is not as hard as real boxwood, so apart the problems in staining, the shaft have a tendency to distort in turning.

I mean, you can't make thin shaft as you would do with ebony, which is desirable (as David Tseng said) if you do, the peg begins to twist a little in the protruding part before it actually moves in the pegbox. I don't like this...

Strings make grooves in these pegs very, fast, especially if they touch another peg, they "saw" it very soon.

When I have used better quality pegs, (Otto Tempel, Lorenz and some by Dick GmbH also) I always have worked and stained with no problems, but it's true they are much more expensive.

I have tried to match the colour with liquid stains but I am not satisfied. Some pegs take the colour better than others.

Not so happy with boxwod pegs...

[Jeff White]

Giovanni, "I have noticed from 1st photo that the string holes are already too far, now obviously you have been obliged to re-drill them after shortening the shafts.

I hope that this time, you have made them not past the half way, between the pegbox walls, starting from the collar side of the peg. Tuning will be easier."

Tell me more about your hole spacing. I have always put the hole about 2/3 away from the peg cheek on the collar side. I wind it up the

pegbox side, essentually "sucking" the peg in. I am not sure where the hole is would have anything to do with the winding of it as that

seems to only be related to where it leaves the peg?

Makes sense about using cheaper boxwood as it isn't as hard to begin with. Need to rethink that. I'll put a better set on this anyway.

I'll try the felt tip marker as I have an extra peg to try it on.

[Giovanni Corazzol]

Hello Jeff, yes this is always my choice (also checked old school notes and Strobel book, which is always near my workbench) to place the string hole halfway or a little more on the collar side (esp. for G and E pegs) The string winding is more compact and the last turn is near but not compressed into the pegbox wall. Some times I make the first turns in the opposite direction if there is not enough space or if the string wants to slip out.

The felt marker is very interesting, I'll try to find one... but after all the more expensive wood is much easier to work, and to stain too. It has fine pores and it's straight, with bad wood you start thinking "I'm not able at doing this anymore"...

Many customers like boxwood fittings, and some buy them on their own for their instruments, but I have started warning them about wood quality. If I have to fit pegs on a simple instrument, I always choose ebony or rosewood.

Almond wood may be a very good wood for pegs, I don't know if someone makes pegs with it.

Every time I see the firewood man in front of the local bakery and pizza stores, i go and look at the wood... there are very nice pieces of hardwood, from almond, lemon and carob trees. I think I'll start buying and seasoning some.

It's sad that this wood is for burning but the effect on pizzas and bread is fantastic anyway...

[Mat Roop]

If you are looking for touchup markers... here are the good ones. I have a variety of about 10 of these that I mix and match to suit the need when I touch up student violins. I make a sample color of each on spruce and use that to determine my color match.

http://www.mohawk-finishing.com/catalog_browse.asp?ictNbr=119

Cheers, Mat

[apartmentluthier]

International Violin sells a boxwood peg stain. It's cheap, easy to use, and is a decent enough color match that I don't mess with other methods. Make sure the peg is smooth and burnished so it doesn't absorb too much. Several light wipes with the stain on a rag or Q-tip until you reach the desired color. More care is needed with the cheaper soft boxwood.

http://www.internationalviolin.com/item_detail.aspx?ItemCode=10317