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daddy-o496

Gouges for scroll carving.

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Chet !

Only YOU are weird enought to come up with THAT idea !

It's great !

I think I'll combine it with MY idea ,,,spring loaded ,,,huh,

I use sockets,impact sockets work great as they are tough, ,I have a vise that I've abused for 30 years,,

so the inside of the jaw edge is smooth, (important)!!

I heat up the stock till it glows, place it on top of the predetermined opening of the vise,,

and SMACK !! with a sledge,,the resultant piece is formed perfectly to the raidus of your choice,,from tiny,,, to Gargansjumitious,,,,!!!!

no molds,,forms,,nothing to make,,though,,,,,,,,,it can get a little weird holding the hot steel and socket with the same hand ,,,,so with chets idea,,,,,,hum,,,I wonder?

If you want a flat radius,,use a really big socket,,if you want round,,open the vise so the socket barely slips into the vise,,minus the thickness of the stock.

And Vu Wall La !!!

Dinner is served !

Evan

http://fiddlehack.com

(The last photo is titled "My children fiddles and car doors")

Another metal man! great idea for forming tools. You sound likeyou know your way around a smithy. welcome.

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Another metal man! great idea for forming tools. You sound like

Well thank you !

workin with metal was sorta like learnin to walk ,,it just happened,I love it ,

I do come from a line of blacksmiths though,,,

But Chets been edu-kated, He's Da MAN !!

If ya wanna weld,,,Chet's IT !

But he can't come in the house,,he has ponies !

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Looks sorta like this:

spring-loadedswage-block.jpg

You can make a wide range of sizes...

That's the one! What is your guys favorite knife edge tool stock ...and why? Mine is an antique Jessop 1/8 in. water and oil hardening. I bought it from a scrap dealer, fifty pounds of flat ground sheets for five dollars !

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Well thank you !

workin with metal was sorta like learnin to walk ,,it just happened,I love it ,

I do come from a line of blacksmiths though,,,

But Chets been edu-kated, He's Da MAN !!

If ya wanna weld,,,Chet's IT !

But he can't come in the house,,he has ponies !

Yes, Chet is THE MAN,from barges to bridges,Violin bridges that is ,,,that's quite a spread isn't It ? I think we have a certain responsibility, as craftsmen, to have at least somewhat of a familiarity with other hand trades,when possible,Apart from risking the dilution of skill points to the"Jack of all trades"level(A negative),I think it must help develop a sympathetic response to materials,methods and forms.

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That's the one! What is your guys favorite knife edge tool stock ...and why? Mine is an antique Jessop 1/8 in. water and oil hardening. I bought it from a scrap dealer, fifty pounds of flat ground sheets for five dollars !

Don't tell me THAT !!!!

0-1 tool steel is available at a number of places, check the prices though,,,

old files are w-1 ,,large old band saw blades are good,,,just be careful unfurling that baby,,

you could DIE !

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Awwww....Pshaw! You'uns are funnin' me...

An' the only ponies I have are the 60 that came with my Tie-ota. (An' they're gettin' right tired...)

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Really, Chet. Simply brilliant!

Stay Tuned.

Mike

Can someone who has good scroll gouges please measure the total length and handle length for me? I am getting more serious about making my own.

John

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For my hand, overall length of about 4 to 4.5 inches seems comfortable. My handles vary from about 2 to 3 inches or a little more. But there really is no substitute for making one or two and seeing what works for you. In my first attempt I made the blades too short for the handles I had cut. I later reground those to incannel and put them in longer handles.

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For scroll gouges, someone posted the actual radii in mm instead of the curvature numbers. I have searched Maestronet in vain for it. Was it posted by Don Noon? An engineer type posted it. Thanks in advance.

John

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For scroll gouges, someone posted the actual radii in mm instead of the curvature numbers. I have searched Maestronet in vain for it. Was it posted by Don Noon? An engineer type posted it. Thanks in advance.

John

Nope, not me, but I can post a link to it here.

(I just googled "maestronet gouge radius" and it came out on top; the MN search function is a waste of time).

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Nope, not me, but I can post a link to it here.

(I just googled "maestronet gouge radius" and it came out on top; the MN search function is a waste of time).

Don,

Thanks, a maestronetter comes through for me again.

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For my hand, overall length of about 4 to 4.5 inches seems comfortable. My handles vary from about 2 to 3 inches or a little more. But there really is no substitute for making one or two and seeing what works for you. In my first attempt I made the blades too short for the handles I had cut. I later reground those to incannel and put them in longer handles.

Captain,

Thanks. I also found info on the web. Length 7.5 inches and 8 inches, with 3.25 inch handles. BTW, I plan to try to visit you next time I come to Asheville.

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John,

Those would be basically regular size gouges. My old Marples are about 9 inches overall. Check out the Flexcut gouges that somebody else mentioned. Those are a pretty good size for scroll work, but you have to dig through a lot of them to find shapes useful to you. Look forward to meeting you, whenever it works out.

Lyle

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violins88, on 15 December 2011 - 12:58 AM, said:

For scroll gouges, someone posted the actual radii in mm instead of the curvature numbers. I have searched Maestronet in vain for it. Was it posted by Don Noon? An engineer type posted it. Thanks in advance.

John

Hi All - I plead guilty as charged. Here is a copy/paste from my August 2009 post.

VIOLIN SCROLL: 6/7; 8/10; 8/14; 10/16; 10/18; 10/20; 12/24; 12/26

CELLO SCROLL: 10/16; 10/18; 10/20; 12/24; 12/26; 12/28; 14/34; 12/42; 20/44

The figure sets are width/diameter in mm. These were determined by fitting radius curves to drawings of the scrolls (with a few mm of overlap). One could quite easily manage with every alternate chisel in the set.

Using the diameter to describe the "sweep" makes sense to this engineer.

Being very human I'm busy sanding my first scroll and my set of scroll chisels has still to be made.

cheers edi

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violins88, on 15 December 2011 - 12:58 AM, said:

For scroll gouges, someone posted the actual radii in mm instead of the curvature numbers. I have searched Maestronet in vain for it. Was it posted by Don Noon? An engineer type posted it. Thanks in advance.

John

Hi All - I plead guilty as charged. Here is a copy/paste from my August 2009 post.

VIOLIN SCROLL: 6/7; 8/10; 8/14; 10/16; 10/18; 10/20; 12/24; 12/26

CELLO SCROLL: 10/16; 10/18; 10/20; 12/24; 12/26; 12/28; 14/34; 12/42; 20/44

The figure sets are width/diameter in mm. These were determined by fitting radius curves to drawings of the scrolls (with a few mm of overlap). One could quite easily manage with every alternate chisel in the set.

Using the diameter to describe the "sweep" makes sense to this engineer.

Being very human I'm busy sanding my first scroll and my set of scroll chisels has still to be made.

cheers edi

edi,

Thanks for posting that. Now I just need to decide on the thickness of steel to buy. I am going to use O-1.

John

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edi,

Thanks for posting that. Now I just need to decide on the thickness of steel to buy. I am going to use O-1.

John

Hi John - you're welcome. I had, under the "only the very best and hardest steel will do" syndrome, collected some machine hacksaw blade made of M2 steel. My first attempt at forging was a disaster - to much hurry, too low a temp etc etc... Also the 2mm thickness seemed too be "generous".

Now that I have actually carved a scroll using my Pfeil gouges and have a better feel for the forces involved, I'll be using ordinary carbon steel hand hacksaw blades of 1mm thickness. Much easier to work and heat treat.

cheers edi

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Hi John - you're welcome. I had, under the "only the very best and hardest steel will do" syndrome, collected some machine hacksaw blade made of M2 steel. My first attempt at forging was a disaster - to much hurry, too low a temp etc etc... Also the 2mm thickness seemed too be "generous".

Now that I have actually carved a scroll using my Pfeil gouges and have a better feel for the forces involved, I'll be using ordinary carbon steel hand hacksaw blades of 1mm thickness. Much easier to work and heat treat.

cheers edi

From what I read about M2, yes, heat treatment is problematic.

But your Pfeil gouges are not thin, are they? Are hacksaw blades O-1 steel?

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From what I read about M2, yes, heat treatment is problematic.

But your Pfeil gouges are not thin, are they? Are hacksaw blades O-1 steel?

Hi John - no, the Pfeils are not thin - this becomes very noticeable when trying to work the scroll around the eye.

M2's forging window is only around 40C - and that somewhere around 1100C. I have a digitally controlled furnace so should be able to work within that tight spot.

However if one is reasonable - a high carbon steel (~1.5% C)can be quenched to a hardness of 65 Rc - OK it'll probably shatter if you stare at it too hard - or even allow it to cool to room temperature (that happened to a reamer that I was making - tiiinnng - and there it was in three longitudinal pieces - a day's work gone!). Tempered to around 200 C will still leave you with ~ 62Rc - which is higher than most hand chisels (~ 58 Rc). That it also has a finer grain structure than the alloy steels is a plus when talking cutting edges.

OK - so it rusts - that's where "The Mixture" comes in. I rub all steel surfaces with a light coating of 50% Linseed Oil /50% turpentine oil. Rub in thoroughly, let stand for about 20 minutes and vigourously remove with a paper towel. Lasts almost 40 years (test still ongoing).

cheers edi

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M2's forging window is only around 40C - and that somewhere around 1100C. I have a digitally controlled furnace so should be able to work within that tight spot.

cheers edi

Edi,

But M2 requires rapid heating after the preheat. Doesn't this mean you need two furnaces?

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I really don't recall much about heat treating M2, but my father said one phase of the process involved a "salt bath". I presume he meant a hot liquidfied salt (not water). Depending on the salt that has to be HOT and heat transfer would be quick. Anyhow, I cut the pre-treated M2 on a wire-EDM.

Can anyone comment and correct me?

Stay Tuned.

Mike

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