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I was just trying to recall one of those books I read, where there were several things that I thought were useful information...

They do all tend to blend together in my memory... perhaps because they copied each other so much? There are definitely ideas in them worth thinking about, even if they go against experience. Since I'm exploring the wonderful world of soundposts, one of the books said something totally opposite of what I thought I had observed. Then I read an old post of Melvin Goldsmith's, where he said not all results of moving the post are linear. Wow! That translated what I had observed, and what I had read into something useful. And from reading Moya, who emphasizes how what the player hears and what the listener hears being very different, I started playing the open strings while holding the violin like a cello, to evaluate the brightness and volume. Big difference in results.

So, yeah, those old books are worth reading, just wear your waders. laugh.gif

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i dont know about all of you guys, but this discussion of old books reminds me of people making fun of how uneducated their high school professors were, sure i dont much read those old books anymore, but old writers, thanks for the memories, and thank god you dont have to live to have your precious ideas torn apart by every tom dick and harry on maestronet!!! hill, stradivari, still a great book etc etc

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You're an aerospace tech guy, and those blokes from 100 years ago spent a lot of their time following horses around with shovels. I try to pay attention to their observations, less on their explanations. Things need to be interpreted with context.

Yes, context is key. Knowing how to separate the wheat from the chaff is even more important. ;)

Stay Tuned.

Mike

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Yes, context is key. Knowing how to separate the wheat from the chaff is even more important. ;)

Yes, but sometimes one man's wheat is another man's chaff. And it's all grist for the web-forum mill, isn't it. Did you want white, wheat, or rye, sir?

On the whole, though, millers and bakers usually have the most reliable knowledge.

Pardon my poly-metaphoric Post®

biggrin.gif

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hope you didnt throw it out, thats the secret undercoat, according to sacconi,

as to wheat chaff etc i think some of the posters who so confidently assume they are wheat, not chaff need to be afraid of wind, very afraid, me ive already handled some strong gusts of wind and im still standing................

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That's what people in the auto industry thought too about Japan at one point.

http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/403/nummi

A few months ago I heard the report that JD Powers ranked Hyundai Equus (a Korean car) highest in its APEAL satisfaction index.

And why would you think innovation would be important when both violin makers and players are the most tradition-bound individuals anywhere?

haha, I actually thought about the tradition bound part before posting. You are right on that point.

Not sure on what you were getting at with Japan and Korea though with the auto industry. Maybe you can elaborate. Your point seems to support mine. China makes a very large portion of the components for the auto industry. Yet almost all the development happens in Germany, Japan, US, and Korea. I have my thoughts on why this is. But I'll refrain from getting into it since it's getting really off topic.

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haha, I actually thought about the tradition bound part before posting. You are right on that point.

Not sure on what you were getting at with Japan and Korea though with the auto industry. Maybe you can elaborate. Your point seems to support mine. China makes a very large portion of the components for the auto industry. Yet almost all the development happens in Germany, Japan, US, and Korea. I have my thoughts on why this is. But I'll refrain from getting into it since it's getting really off topic.

Yes, this is indeed getting OT. But if you haven't read Jared Diamond's book "Collapse," I suggest you do so to find out how all this is relevant.

One of the many stories of civilizational collapse Diamond tells in his book is that of the Easter Islanders, who eventually denuded their whole island of trees, rendering it uninhabitable. When we look in hindsight it's easy to ask how those particular Easter Islanders, especially the last ones, could have been so foolish. But it's not so easy to find out what was going on in their minds as they cut down those last trees. The NUMMI story illustrates how that process of collapse might have occurred, even when GM had well-qualified help.

As to your question how Japan and Korea has to do with the automotive example, I recall as short as ten to fifteen years ago Hyundai was generally regarded as the Asian Yugo. How times have changed in so short a time. How did Japan and Korea become significant players in automotive development when US and Germany dominated it?

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as to wheat chaff etc i think some of the posters who so confidently assume they are wheat, not chaff need to be afraid of wind, very afraid, me ive already handled some strong gusts of wind and im still standing................

... and some posters on this forum mostly create a lot of hot air, to show dominance over chaff. Forums are where wheat and chaff can hang out and share info and ideas.

Viewing things from the outside, I notice not every seed that considers itself wheat is accepted into the Wheat Club either. wink.gif

Addie, torturer of fiddle strings, defiler of Markneukirchen "gems," and all around chaff. OBTW, I'm sitting. Till the next breeze, at least.

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I plan on attending school and would like to know if there are differences in the three schools in America...any input is appreciated

-Ernie

Hi Ernie,

I don't understand why you feel as though you need to go to a violin making school. I was just reading your older making post, and it looks like your first violin came out beautifully (http://www.maestronet.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=322476&hl=search...&st=220). Why waste the money?

-FW

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Hi Ernie,

I don't understand why you feel as though you need to go to a violin making school. I was just reading your older making post, and it looks like your first violin came out beautifully (http://www.maestronet.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=322476&hl=search...&st=220). Why waste the money?

-FW

I too think Ernie could do just fine learning on his own, extracting tips here and there from the experienced makers who are usually willing to share what they know, and/or hitting an occasional workshop session a la Darnton or Oberlin. However, everyone has a different situation when it comes to money and the appeal of leaving home for a couple of years. For me, it wouldn't work... either on money or the time away from home and family. For someone else, it might.

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This has gone on for ten pages now... although a good portion of the discussion went off into other areas. Thanks again to Don for moving some of this to a new thread... I was considering starting my own subject on head-butt-tap-tone wood testing & tuning, however. Maybe another day.

The debate concerning the superiority of the attributes of school vs. shop employment vs. workshops and self teaching probably isn't going to be solved here. The lines tend to be polarized by personal choices and possibly the level or type of involvement one wishes in the industry anyway.

Rather than argue the virtues of one method of learning over another, I'll just say, for myself, there has really been no downside to all three... and I can see a clear downside to not having experienced any one of the three. At this point, I wouldn't spend time being involved in the administration end of a violin making school or the teaching end of workshops if I felt they weren't valuable for the students/participants and the trade. In the case of many non-profit organizations (like the Chicago School), it's an expectation that sitting board members give funds to the school annually... so I think it's probably safe to say that those involved on the educational end are not doing this because of the vast fortunes we earn from these venues. :)

If Ernie can spend the time for school, more power to him.

BTW: There is a big plus to the networking that occurs in a school (or shop) setting.

Cheers!

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My reason is simple really...I would enjoy the school enviroment of learning and meeting others in the business...

being able to see and handle classic instruments is another reason...time and money is on my side...I'm not wealthy rich but now is a good time for me in that sense...

-Ernie

Cool man.. I'd do the same, if I could.

Hang ten and get stoked!

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Hi Ernie,

I don't understand why you feel as though you need to go to a violin making school. I was just reading your older making post, and it looks like your first violin came out beautifully (http://www.maestronet.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=322476&hl=search...&st=220). Why waste the money?

-FW

Aside from the learning that would happen at a good school, there is this -- If I were going to spend a significant amount of money on an instrument, the fact that the maker has some meaningful certifications of training would make me more confident that my money was well spent/invested.

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i dont know about all of you guys, but this discussion of old books reminds me of people making fun of how uneducated their high school professors were, sure i dont much read those old books anymore, but old writers, thanks for the memories, and thank god you dont have to live to have your precious ideas torn apart by every tom dick and harry on maestronet!!! hill, stradivari, still a great book etc etc

It's funny you should use that analogy. Because the more involved I got in education, the more I got to know teachers as peers rather than as a student? The less I felt bad in mocking some teachers growing up.tongue.gif

College though, I had a lot fewer worthless profs.

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