Norwegian Hardingfele Hardanger Fiddle Violin on Ebay

[GoldenPlate]

Here's the interesting fiddle:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Antique-Norwegian-Hardingfele-Hardanger-Fiddle-Violin-/120804585278?_trksid=p4340.m1374&_trkparms=algo%3DPI.WATCH%26its%3DC%252BS%26itu%3DUCC%26otn%3D15%26ps%3D63%26clkid%3D4039021175286914693#ht_500wt_1287

[Bob A]

The few I'm aware of sold for around $2500. So far, it's a steal.

[lyndon]

yeah but the seller has 0 feedback.

[Richf]

These threads all follow a formula, so I'll chip in the missing piece:

The Chinese make hardangers, too.

(Maybe the Administrator could create a template, then whoever could just stick in an ebay listing and it would be complete.)

[lyndon]

yeah but if youve seen the chinese hardingers they dont look like this.

[La Folia]

The pegs look odd. Not decorated, for a start. Are those ordinary violin pegs? They look a little odd-shaped even for violin pegs.

[Anders Buen]

This is a traditional Hardanger fiddle with "bought" pegs. Nothing chinese over this one. I do not know the seller.

I do not think you can see if the reserve has been met. I guess the bidders know what the real value of such a fiddle is, so the price will reveal itself in the very last second. I do not know which maker it is. The pics are too small for me to decide on decortations etc. Unusual not to give the maker, so maybe the seller is not a pro.

Edited November 8, 2011 by Anders Buen

[stephen maloney]

yeah but if youve seen the chinese hardingers they dont look like this.

What do they look like? Wait, maybe don't answer that.

[lyndon]

This is a traditional Hardanger fiddle with "bought" pegs. Nothing chinese over this one. I do not know the seller.

I do not think you can see if the reserve has been met. I guess the bidders know what the real value of such a fiddle is, so the price will reveal itself in the very last second. I do not know which maker it is. The pis are too small for me. Unusual not to give the maker, so maybe the seller is not a pro.

as anders points out this is a traditional instrument, not a chinese reproduction, though slight possiblity its american made, but he is wrong about a reserve, there is no reserve on this auction

[Anders Buen]

What do they look like? Wait, maybe don't answer that.

I have seen some chinese made Hardanger fiddles on ebay. They have very round tailpices and the fingerbaord and tailieces seem to have been made in a somewhat large qualtity. I have seen the fingerboards and tailpieces for sale separately too. There is a set with white "inlay" in ebony and a set with a light brown wood with black "inlay" pieces. The fiddles did not look all that bad.

[Anders Buen]

as anders points out this is a traditional instrument, not a chinese reproduction, though slight possiblity its american made, but he is wrong about a reserve, there is no reserve on this auction

It could have been made in america, but not by a native american at that time, not now either. I guess you are more experienced with ebay than me. :-)

[lyndon]

no anders i mean their are immigrants making hardingers in usa, or so i have heard

[Anders Buen]

no anders i mean their are immigrants making hardingers in usa, or so i have heard

Yes, there were a few I know of. Among them Knut Helland. Some of his brothers also did participate, possibly John. A lot of Norwegians immigrated. Several houndred thousand.

[La Folia]

The auction was ended early. Top bid was $1650.

[GoldenPlate]

Thanks Jeffrey!

Glad that the discussion is back to this interesting fiddle

[Jeffrey Holmes]

I believe I've removed about 5 posts from this thread this morning, and edited one. FYI, other members notice personal agendas and off topic posts, and the responses they inevitably attract, and do report them. Thanks to those members.

I've asked nicely before. Please keep your personal agendas in check in order that they do not interfere with the discussions here. I won't be asking again.

(edit) No problem, caspace.

[stephen maloney]

Allrighty then! To the topic at hand without personal attack.

I actually don't find it an "interesting fiddle" at all. Perhaps if it were interesting as a violin per se, it should be a thread in the Pegbox, not the Auction Scroll. What is supposed to be interesting about this fiddle or even this auction, then?

Well, what I do find perhaps not interesting, but curious, is that the seller has 0 feedback and ended the auction prematurely. This sort of action is often done in an effort to avoid eBay fees (this is often done with shill bidding). That already looks pretty shady to me. I also find it curious that the OP constantly starts these threads about questionable items with questionable sellers. Other posters in other threads have made their own speculations as to motivation - I will remain silent on that (for now).

[La Folia]

It's interesting because it exists. There are not many sales of these instruments. It looks to me like a good (modern?) fiddle, although there might possibly be a minor issue with routing of understrings in the pegbox. As always, you can't know for sure what it sounds like, but returns were allowed.

The seller probably has a good idea what it's worth. Do you know anything about this fiddle, BobA?

[Jeffrey Holmes]

Well, what I do find perhaps not interesting, but curious, is that the seller has 0 feedback and ended the auction prematurely. This sort of action is often done in an effort to avoid eBay fees (this is often done with shill bidding). That already looks pretty shady to me. I also find it curious that the OP constantly starts these threads about questionable items with questionable sellers. Other posters in other threads have made their own speculations as to motivation - I will remain silent on that (for now).

Well, once one's views have been presented, repeating them is redundant, isn't it?

At the risk being redundant: With the possible exception that a situation is mentioned on the board for discussion, if you have continuing concerns with eBay's practices, contact eBay or an appropriate consumer group. If you have difficulties with a member of the forum, report it to the moderator. It's my job, not yours, to moderate the board... but I certainly take concerns voiced by members into consideration when doing so.

[lyndon]

yeah but the seller has 0 feedback.

anytime youre looking at 0 feedback, theres a possibility the violin doesnt exist at all, at least not in the sellers hands, the new paypal coverage is pretty good about covering this, but dont ever pay with anything but paypal on a deal like this, or your not covered at all. also there is a distinct possibility the auction ended early because ebay found something fishy, or he might have got a private offer outside of ebay and paypal, which, if he is a fraud, is exactly what he was hoping for.

[Cuzco School]

Gads! This is a Chinese made Hardanger fiddle. No question about it. Here's another:<p>

Chinese Hardanger

[lyndon]

are you blind, they dont look even remotely similar, the chinese one looks cruder and brand new for one thing

[Cuzco School]

are you blind, they dont look even remotely similar, the chinese one looks cruder and brand new for one thing

Well- if you are familiar with the instrument it is pretty obvious. Both instruments here are, as you say, 'crude' by comparison to a real one, (as well as brand new)

Actually cheap hardangers made in Asia have been around for a while. There are hardanger sites on the internet describing the pitfalls of finding a real one. There have been a few authentic antique ones on eBay over the years and I used to have one myself, but one has to be really careful. This one is no good. Even without the suspicious provenance, cagey description, general clunkiness of the thing, un-pretty wood etc. Real ones are very elegant, beautiful instruments and no two are alike.

[lyndon]

then why did our resident expert on hardingers, anders buen, say it was real, not chinese???

[Anders Buen]

Well- if you are familiar with the instrument it is pretty obvious. Both instruments here are, as you say, 'crude' by comparison to a real one, (as well as brand new)

Actually cheap hardangers made in Asia have been around for a while. There are hardanger sites on the internet describing the pitfalls of finding a real one. There have been a few authentic antique ones on eBay over the years and I used to have one myself, but one has to be really careful. This one is no good. Even without the suspicious provenance, cagey description, general clunkiness of the thing, un-pretty wood etc. Real ones are very elegant, beautiful instruments and no two are alike.

I think you must be trying to irritate somebody. There is no connection between these fiddles, nor their origin.

There are some good things to say about the chinese fiddle you had a link to. The colour is ok, the f-holes are sort of traditional and plain maple is often used in Hardanger fiddles.

There are plenty of negative things to say. The inlay material is not traditional, the bridge feet are too short, the decoration clearly made by someone without the tradition in their fingers, the tailpiece, and most likely, the fingerboard is too round. All string hooks comes from the underside of the tailpiece. The traditional is to have the understrings come from the underside and the playing strings from the overside. The neck appear to be CNC machined and there has been no attempt to hide it. The neck model is not good.

However, hardanger fiddles are fairly expencive. Although they do not reach the prices of fine old violins, there are not plenty of cheap instruments available for e.g. beginners, as there is for those playing the violin. Smaller size instruments are rarities. Fairly decent labeled Hardanger fiddles start around $3500.- or so. I still think these obviously chinese hardanger fiddles are priced a bit stiff.

Here is another one with a better looking back. The mid c bout decoration is the small 'rose' traditionally put on the center of the back plate. If the string length is ok, it may work as a beginner instrument.