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18th Century French Violin- Any Ideas?


GoldenPlate

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theres some thing awefully fresh looking about the varnish, especially on the back and the scroll, however as the price stands and even if it goes up to a thousand, it probably worth it in my less than expert opinion

ps i take that back; no return policy, if it has a soundpost crack etc youre screwed, i mean if it had a return policy it looks a good as that german grafted violin pahdah hound sold for 4200 a couple weeks ago

if you do bid on it insist on using paypal, it will give you some recourse if things go bad

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Having had a good look at it and comparing with a few similar ones that I have in my workshop, I am happy to dogmatically confirm that this is an old Salzkammergut violin ca. 1800. They were originally made on the through neck, caved bass bar system. The purfling is always painted on (unless someone has purfled it later) using apparently some sort of roller, with a guide to make the distance of the purfling from the edge uniform. This ALWAYS either came to grief at the area beneath the button, or they stopped either side of the button and drew three crosses there instead. The purfling hasn’t been redrawn; rather it is typical just how it is. They always have funny “F” nicks. The peg box hasn’t been replaced, as I originally thought, rather the scroll has broken off at some stage, and been slightly ham-fistedly stuck back on. There is nothing wrong with the varnish. I normally use these instruments as super-budget Baroque violins, which unfortunately is no longer possible here.

I remember buying one of these at an auction in Vichy ages ago. Nobody there had a clue what it was, even though one of the French gypsies found me a map to point at. The bidding started at 30 French Francs and I had to sneeze, upon which the auctioneers hammer came down immediately.

I always used to think that the makers of this school were absolutely miles below the poverty line, until the “Oberösterreichishe Heimatblätter” published the probate inventory of one of the older ones. He was (particularly for a vm.) extremely rich, and the list of all the various sorts of cash he had in his till included Cremonese money. Since there is a valley there called “Geigenthal”, I presume they ran a tone wood business, so I hope that doesn’t wreck Peters dendro statistics.

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Dear Lyndon,

I use my life to swear I am not an agent for pahdah....

In fact, if you see the "frantic bidding" that stevrino started, you will see my comments toward Mr. Hound was extremely unfriendly...

I just thought it's interesting to bring up.

If possible, could Mr. Holmes remove my thread of "Excellent Antique 18th century French Violin"

Deepest apology again.

caspace youre obviously some kind of agent for pahdah as youve started two identical threads for the same violin

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If that's from the Salzkammergut, they made them visibly differently to the folk in Tirol. Any idea why?

Should you leave South Tirol/Bozen area too one side, there are few makers in the Tirol that I'm aware of. Who were you thinking off? Still less reason why they should have any relationship with the Salzkammergut.

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Should you leave South Tirol/Bozen area too one side, there are few makers in the Tirol that I'm aware of. Who were you thinking off? Still less reason why they should have any relationship with the Salzkammergut.

I wasn't thinking of anyone in particular, only that I don't seem to see much "homage to Stainer" in the fiddle. Which seems odd for one from anywhere in Austria ca. 1800, but that might be my ignorance on display again. Were there German-speakers making to a model other than Stainer's at the time?

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I wasn't thinking of anyone in particular, only that I don't seem to see much "homage to Stainer" in the fiddle. Which seems odd for one from anywhere in Austria ca. 1800, but that might be my ignorance on display again. Were there German-speakers making to a model other than Stainer's at the time?

If one does a quick revue of who was in N. Tirol: There was first and foremost Stainer himself, an Amati pupil, then a few ex-pat Füssen makers, like Psenner oder Hoss in Innsbruck, a few stray Mittenwalder and of course the various vm families (Rief, Petz etc.) in Vils. Of the top of my head, without going to look things up, that's about it. They were all from the branch of fiddle making that used a rib mould and nailed on neck, wheras the Salzkammergut makers were from the "free ribs, through neck, carved bar, painted purfeling" branch. I think, if you don't mind me saying so, that the mistake is probably to expect similarities.

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Dear Lyndon,

I use my life to swear I am not an agent for pahdah....

There may or may not be better uses for your life; that remains to be seen, of course. To avoid just that sort of Lyndonian confusion which prompted your swearing above, Caspar, may I suggest introducing yourself even partially to perhaps provide some small semblance of credibility which you don't currently have.

Otherwise, for all we know, you're John T or his longtime boyfriend.

Just a friendly suggestion, nothing more.

Some may even wonder, "Is s/he Caspar The Oriental Ghost (CTOG) who haunts ebay listings? Perhaps an ebay shill for that person, whoever s/he might be, whom you refer to as "Mr Hound" (I guess not Hound of the Baskervilles, but who knows), or a mere competitor of other sellers there trying to take them down a notch so, as you imagine, your business might do a little better, hence your never-ending "hey look what i found" postings about ebay sellers?

The "I'm just a student trying to learn" doesn't seem credible, it's too facile. That character needs more work. Again, there are creative writing classes in your community.

Have a nice weekend,

Steve

(it's my verified real name; my last name is anonymous for the time being)

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If that's from the Salzkammergut, they made them visibly differently to the folk in Tirol. Any idea why?

A decade or so ago, an American took a violin making tour of Germany and wrote about the neighboring towns of Mittenwald and Markneukirchen in STRINGS magazine. The magazine got an irate letter from a very insulted German who said the towns were in completely different parts of the country, and as different as day and night--hardly neighbors. The editor noted that while this may be true in Germany, in Los Angeles the distance represented a drive across town.

Before trains, planes, and automobiles, each town had its specific violin making style. When the next violin making town might be two or three days' walk away, and violins never wandered far from where they were made and purchased, how could it be expected that there would be cross-influences?

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Before trains, planes, and automobiles, each town had its specific violin making style. When the next violin making town might be two or three days' walk away, and violins never wandered far from where they were made and purchased, how could it be expected that there would be cross-influences?

I'm not sure that I agree with that.

Violin making schools spread by individual makers moving elsewhere and starting a new "branch". Also the guild regulations often obliged young makers, who had just finished there apprentiships to work elsewhere for several years. Indeed 13 year old Füssen boys were routinely sent hundreds of miles away to relatives in distant towns and cities to learn. In the case of the Salzkammergut, it was a school that consisted essensialy of a mere 3 intermarried families with (to my knowledge) no input from ouside. They did walk to other regions with violins in a "Kraxen" (Rucksack) to sell them at fairs though.

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