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Vintage Violin with Case (8725060)


melody4u
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Hi again...I'm a violin teacher trying to find "nicer" violins for the school and private students. I've been watching Ebay and shopgoodwill.com. I'll try to not keep bothering you but could you look at shopgoodwill.com and check out this violin. It is already over $200 and it has 3 days to go. It doesn't have a label so you have to "know" what you're looking at. Any ideas? Thanks.post-1805-0-07184500-1318702903_thumb.jpg

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Well, yes that is an option....that most of my students can't or won't afford. We live 90 miles from the nearest store that sells violins. They bought $150 violin outfits through the school and as you can imagine they don't last very long. I've bought some very nice $400 to $600 violins for $123 to $198. If you don't want to give your opinion...then don't. This violin wasn't for a student...just my curiosity. I usually stick with well-known names with good reputations. Have a good day.

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It doesn't mean anything, Jacob. We're all in such different circumstances that I was just trying to let you know where I was coming from....I wasn't trying to put you down. I had to laugh when I saw where the last poster was from...I lived in Milton, FL for a little while. Now I live in S.E. Georgia and for years I was the only violin player in 3 or 4 counties that could read music. Fiddle players are more welcome around here and I had to learn to play by ear to enjoy jamming with them. I grew up in California where they offered orchestra in the school system. Actually I long to play with an orchestra again. I think I'll quit talking and just read other's opinions for a while. Thanks.

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"Hi again...I'm a violin teacher trying to find "nicer" violins for the school and private students. "

"Well go to a proper violin shop then- "

(Zen Koan, courtesy: Roshi Jacob Saunders)

...

Hi Melody,

In addition to the options you are exploring now, may I suggest you try the tab next to "message boards" above; the one you see titled "dealer makers".

There may not be a dealer very near you geographically, but some of the ones in "dealer makers" have online shops with better instruments for students all the way up to professional level. Many will feature decent prices, a trial period and some sort of trustworthy return policy. Of course another idea (granted, budget may be a factor), is to go yourself and buy a handful of inexpensive violins from such an establishment (which you can try out there at the shop and approve/disapprove) and then resell these to your students, at cost, plus whatever surcharge seems appropriate for your time, effort, and gasoline. Yet another idea is instrument rental, and some on this board do that as well. You sound like a dedicated teacher.

(The above paragraph is a "normal sphere of cognition" translation of Jacob's "wisdom eye level" pithy Zen aphorism, something for which he is well known, and rightly feared. An itinerant Zen monk who gradually made his way from England to Austria, Jacob "Hyakujo" Saunders speaks in terse riddles his disciples can understand only pre-verbally, nay pre-cognitively, in a kensho moment of sudden enlightenment, often many years afterward. His crusty exterior belies a bodhisattva-like kindness and delusion-piercing wisdom. )

Regards,

Steve

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"Hi again...I'm a violin teacher trying to find "nicer" violins for the school and private students. "

"Well go to a proper violin shop then- "

(Zen Koan, courtesy: Roshi Jacob Saunders)

...

Hi Melody,

In addition to the options you are exploring now, may I suggest you try the tab next to "message boards" above; the one you see titled "dealer makers".

There may not be a dealer very near you geographically, but some of the ones in "dealer makers" have online shops with better instruments for students all the way up to professional level. Many will feature decent prices, a trial period and some sort of trustworthy return policy. Of course another idea (granted, budget may be a factor), is to go yourself and buy a handful of inexpensive violins from such an establishment (which you can then try out there at the shop and approve/disapprove) and then resell these to your students, at cost, plus whatever surcharge seems appropriate for your time, effort, and gasoline. Yet another idea is instrument rental, and some on this board do that as well. You sound like a dedicated teacher.

(The above paragraph is a "normal sphere of cognition" translation of Jacob's "wisdom eye level" pithy Zen aphorism, something for which he is well known, and rightly feared. An itinerant Zen monk who gradually made his way from England to Austria, Jacob "Hyakujo" Saunders speaks in terse riddles his disciples can understand only pre-verbally, nay pre-cognitively, in a kensho moment of sudden enlightenment, often many years afterward. His crusty exterior belies a bodhisattva-like kindness and delusion-piercing wisdom. )

Regards,

Steve

True

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+++++++++++++++++++

Not many people can afford to shop in a violin shop. Some shops do not sell anything less than $4k.

Have you been there?

Fellow: Not only have I “been” to a violin shop, I have owned my own violin shop since 1987. Going further back in history, I was born literally above my father’s violin shop, and grew up in it. Should you be interested in my life story, you will find a link to my home page in my “Maestronet Profile”. I sell violins from 600 Euros upwards and have been known to accept payment in installments, although I prefer not too. For those to whom that would be too great a hurdle, I also rent out violin “sets” (i.e. violin, bow, case, shoulder rest, resin) from 17 Euros per month.

Ebay is useful for some things. If I may give an example: I have always used Brummer Interior Stopping as an interior crack filler, ever since a colleague from Ealing Strings gave me the tip decades ago. This is useful, since it is water soluble, therefore 100% reversible, and can be washed completely away with warm water. Brummer Stopping is not available in Austria, so I always used to bother English visitors to bring me some. It isn’t widely available in English hardware stores either, since few want to stock something with a low turnover and a short shelf life, so that British violinists sometimes spent days going from one Pakistani hardware shop to another before they visited. Nowadays I have no need to inconvenience British customer’s, I can just order some on my computer at http://www.ebay.at/itm/310137198167?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649 . The same can be said for instance for Chinagraphs, for writing on violins (plotting centre lines, marking bridge position etc.)

Antique violins on ebay are a different kettle of fish. Roughly ever other week, members of the public visit my shop with worthless junk that they have bought on ebay. Some even have the brass neck to be offended when I refuse to repair it. Even those of us who have spent there lives studying old violins will have mostly disappointments buying instruments there. That somebody like Melody, who apparently can’t even distinguish between a 100 year old French and a new Chinese violin will find better value on ebay than at a respectable violin shop is risible, to put it politely. This is in no way insinuating that Melody is a bad person, on the contrary, just that anybody with years of experience can see that she will either finish up with a garage full of worthless junk, or an empty bank account. In a different thread, Lyndon recently wrote:

“Imagine walking into a violin shop with only one violin for sale, and they want you to pay for it before you even hear it, and there’s no guarantee or service offered, or possibility to trade up. This is basically what ebay offers you, doesn’t sound so good, does it. Ebay is like gambling, the only way to get one good one is buy several and hope you get even one good one, if your inexperienced you might buy 20 and still not get a good deal, its mostly crooks, and the choices in real antiques are very little, its 95% Chinese junk, 4%german junk and 1% other, mostly overpriced”

I think that there is little to add to that (although I hope he won’t mind my adding capital letters and punctuation).

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[qu

+++++++++++++

True, no one can get something for nothing. All good violins have prices. We need more shops like yours. It is good for everyone.

I bought my violins on line (from reputable sites) about $2k few years ago, it was not a bad experience. I guess I was just plain lucky. I did not buy anything without return policy.

That was my basic requirement. Worst comes to worst I risk the shipping cost.

I did once return a violin within 3 days I bought on line. It was the case that no question was asked.As is was said, It took about a week to get my money back

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It doesn't mean anything, Jacob. We're all in such different circumstances that I was just trying to let you know where I was coming from....I wasn't trying to put you down. I had to laugh when I saw where the last poster was from...I lived in Milton, FL for a little while. Now I live in S.E. Georgia and for years I was the only violin player in 3 or 4 counties that could read music. Fiddle players are more welcome around here and I had to learn to play by ear to enjoy jamming with them. I grew up in California where they offered orchestra in the school system. Actually I long to play with an orchestra again. I think I'll quit talking and just read other's opinions for a while. Thanks.

There are actually several violin shops in Georgia. Check out this link: http://www.violinist.com/luthiers/index.cfm?state=Georgia Some may have a rental program or sell inexpensive but reliable and in-decent-shape instruments. Most will have a return policy. From my perspective re E-bay, there are some honest dealers there but there are many more swindlers. A violin in terrible condition can look OK in a photograph and, as you may know, when it comes to inexpensive instruments, they can be "totaled" even by relatively minor problems which make the instrument unplayable but cost more than the instrument is worth to repair.

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Well, yes that is an option....that most of my students can't or won't afford. We live 90 miles from the nearest store that sells violins. They bought $150 violin outfits through the school and as you can imagine they don't last very long. I've bought some very nice $400 to $600 violins for $123 to $198. If you don't want to give your opinion...then don't. This violin wasn't for a student...just my curiosity. I usually stick with well-known names with good reputations. Have a good day.

Keep in mind even if you do find a good deal remotely you will still likely need the services of a local shop/repair-person. Even on the fiddle you posted it's likely to need a (new) bridge, soundpost reset, and strings at the minimum. There might be other more serious issues related to setup, and I haven't even started on instrument health. Keep all these potential additional costs in mind as you scour for a deal.

Once I was desperate for a "bash" (outdoors) fiddle and didn't feel like spending much. I purchased locally through craigslist. I had plenty of opportunity to examine the fiddle in person. Costs for a proper setup on that fiddle would have been around $400.

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So far I have only bought Johannes Kohr K500's and Eastman violins and 2 from Yitamusic. The first one from Yita was nice, but the 2nd one wasn't. Sooo...I don't have a pile of junk but students happily playing "better" violins than the $50 one they started with. I checked the reviews of these violins carefully before buying that model and I haven't been disappointed yet. I happily bought my violin from a Dutch luthier for a lot more money when there on a trip. So I'm not against violin shops and wish there were some closer. I will be the first to admit I know almost nothing about what to look for in finer violins...but I'd rather be the one to say it. Music is for everyone and we shouldn't get snobby when we know more in our field than others. This was supposed to be about identifying the violin on shopgoodwill.com.

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This was supposed to be about identifying the violin on shopgoodwill.com.

I'm afraid I couldn't find you're violin on "shopgoodwill.com", perhaps you would like to provide a link.

I did find this:

http://www.shopgoodwill.com/auctions/Vintage-Harpsichord-8748722.html

masquerading as a "Vintage Harpsichord" which could perhaps speak volumes about the site

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Hi again...I'm a violin teacher trying to find "nicer" violins for the school and private students. I've been watching Ebay and shopgoodwill.com. I'll try to not keep bothering you but could you look at shopgoodwill.com and check out this violin. It is already over $200 and it has 3 days to go. It doesn't have a label so you have to "know" what you're looking at. Any ideas? Thanks.post-1805-0-07184500-1318702903_thumb.jpg

++++++++++++++

What is important now is not to over pay. $200 to $250 is not a bad deal. Cut an Okay bridge and put a new set of strings. You are in business for your

students to play. look like you have to cut the bridge and buy new strings yourself to save.

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Here is the link to the one Melody is talking about. They must not have categorized it fully, just under Musical Instruments:

http://www.shopgoodwill.com/viewItem.asp?itemid=8725060

And, I am intrigued by this new venue, no paypal, no buyer protection plan, yada yada yada. It's like the good 'ole days of ebay.laugh.gif

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Thanks for the Link fiddle surgeon, I cant imagine why I couldnt find it.

Its the normal common or garden Schönbach school fiddle, made anywhere between 1890 and 1930 (cant really tell from the fuzzy photos). Also unclear is weather or not the fingerboard is ebony, it could also be ebonised (i.e. painted black) pear or similar. It looks like it could have had spent a few decades in someones attic/garage/cellar.

Such fiddles are fairly routine and will need 1. cleaning 2. fingerboard shooting 3.pegs re-fitting or replacing 4. almost certainly a properly fitting sound post 5. a new bridge 6. most music school teachers want a tailpiece with fine tuners (e.g. Wittner) 7. edge cleaning and gluing 8. new strings and 9. you will want a new case (bow). It isnt possible to tell from these photos if all measurements/neck angle etc. are all right or not, or if there are any other disadvantages not shown. I would be charging you about 500 Euros for this work, and if Fellow wants to choke, he is welcome too.

The price is already nearly 300 Dollars + shipping + handling charges which is a lot more than I would pay if someone came into my shop with it. You are almost at a total cost where you could have taken the money to a violin shop, chosen one that you had tried out and liked, with warranty, service etc. which brings me full circle to my first post.

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