What is the origin of this violin?


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I don't know the origin of the violin, but the flame on the back and neck is fake. I agree that the fittings look Chinese.

Are the flames produced by actual flame, as in using a little baker's propane torch, the sort used to caramelize desserts, etc.? I have seen this on other Chinese violins and wondered. Please advise.

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Are the flames produced by actual flame, as in using a little baker's propane torch, the sort used to caramelize desserts, etc.? I have seen this on other Chinese violins and wondered. Please advise.

I don't know for certain. My guess is that the simulated wood figure is created by spraying on pigment with an air brush.

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I don't know for certain. My guess is that the simulated wood figure is created by spraying on pigment with an air brush.

Geez. It's amazing the lengths people will go to to make a crappy product in China. My friend from Beijing recently told me about a dumpling vendor who was jailed for selling 'fake dumplings'. Rather than simply using the cheapest ground pork, he thought he'd be clever and save $ by using mushy cardboard which he would collect from dumpsters and soak in some sort of nasty brine with leftover kitchen grease, lard, etc. The tip off is that people were getting really sick...

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Geez. It's amazing the lengths people will go to to make a crappy product in China. My friend from Beijing recently told me about a dumpling vendor who was jailed for selling 'fake dumplings'. Rather than simply using the cheapest ground pork, he thought he'd be clever and save $ by using mushy cardboard which he would collect from dumpsters and soak in some sort of nasty brine with leftover kitchen grease, lard, etc. The tip off is that people were getting really sick...

Similar "figure painting" or "flaming" was done in Europe in the past... not always on instruments you'd think of as "cheap" these days. I know of a small 18th century Milanese violin with painted figure.

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+++++++++++++

The Old Chinese ethics are gone, new thinking is to make money. Making money is not exactly capitalism

Following capitalism in a right way is not a simple transformation. It could not be done overnight.

However, serious crimes in China are few, much less than the West.

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hi, there....apart of the fittings (which couldn't be clearly supposed to be from asia... why? because of the shape? bilge... there are no fine details on the photos) this violin might be italian or german. regarding the age...it's a definitely an old violin made in early 20th century. what is the price of this violin?

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you can tell a lot by the price, its a brand new violin, so if the price is under 2 or 3 thousand dollars, it almost has to be chinese, just go to ebay and look at the chinese violins selling for 100-900, youll see stuff virtually identical to this, though most of it has some kind of artificial wear, they tend to reserve no wear at all for the cheaper models from china

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Thanks for all the comments.

Lyndon, could you tell me how to spot a Chinese instrument?

By the way, I felt like the flaming is rather beautiful actually LOL

just study the cheapest new (they dont always say new, even)instrumenrs on ebay in the 50-1500 range, the ones that show multiple basically identical or very similar instruments from the same seller, they may not all admit to being chinese, but almost all the factory american and european labeled violins are being made in china also, some may still be made in romania, hand made western violins start at about 10,000 if there much good and go up to 50,000+

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Lovely fiddle, frantic bidding. 13 bids, already up to $10.50.

Caspace, I think you would find that spray-painted fake flame looks really crappy if you actually see the wood.

EDIT:

1. Whether the flame is fake or real would be instantly obvious if one could see the violin in hand, or a picture from another angle. If it's real, it's beautiful, but if it's fake, it stinks.

2. But what do I know about the value of this?

3. We probably ought not to comment on an auction in progress. Of course it wasn't in progress, was it?

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Caspace,

Where did your original photos come from?

I don't think this violin is Chinese - everything about it suggests a Bohemian trade violin to me, not a truly bad one either, perhaps from around 1920. All the Chinese violins I see have very big buttons, the wood is rather characteristic, and other points of style are a bit exaggerated.

I wouldn't know from the pictures that the flaming is painted - I've seen plenty of real figure like this - however I take others' word for it, and there does seem to be a "smudge" on the lower right rib. However, as has been pointed out, this is not a sure sign of a bad violin - I have had at least one great old Hungarian violin with fake flame, and people don't seem to mind the Michel-Ange Garini/JTL fake flaming.

The cheap boxwood fittings are evidence only that this violin has been set up recently and on the cheap, since these sets with parisian eyes on the pegs are about the cheapest fittings you can buy - inevitably they're very popular!

Martin Swan Violins

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Caspace,

Where did your original photos come from?

I don't think this violin is Chinese - everything about it suggests a Bohemian trade violin to me, not a truly bad one either, perhaps from around 1920. All the Chinese violins I see have very big buttons, the wood is rather characteristic, and other points of style are a bit exaggerated.

I wouldn't know from the pictures that the flaming is painted - I've seen plenty of real figure like this - however I take others' word for it, and there does seem to be a "smudge" on the lower right rib. However, as has been pointed out, this is not a sure sign of a bad violin - I have had at least one great old Hungarian violin with fake flame, and people don't seem to mind the Michel-Ange Garini/JTL fake flaming.

The cheap boxwood fittings are evidence only that this violin has been set up recently and on the cheap, since these sets with parisian eyes on the pegs are about the cheapest fittings you can buy - inevitably they're very popular!

Martin Swan Violins

Which violin are we talking about? I don't see no paris eyes on the pics at the top?

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