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I don't think so ... I think it's a buyer getting carried away by a neck graft, might think it's a Rogeri! Derazey made some Maggini copies but they don't look much like this.

The photos are sexy, nice light. I did have a very similar Maggini copy a year or two ago - definitely superior to the usual tradey ones with the long backs and the extra turn to the scroll. But I came to the conclusion it was just a better German tradey violin, probably 1860 or so. The scroll on mine was better - this one seems to end up with some rather hurried cuts around the eye, and the general line is a bit wonky.

I'll see if I can find pictures of the one I had - I'll be sick as a dog if it was anything decent.

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I don't think so either, Steve.

Like Martin, I had one similar, in fact extremely similar, wide body but not particularly long, identical ffs (unlike the ones mostly seen on the Derazey copies), but mine had a bit of extra decoration on the back.

I think they are about 1840/50 and although it was almost 20years ago, I remember people uttering names like Derazey.

I don't actually know whether they have much to do with Derazey specifically but it is the sort of workshop attribution that might well be associated with that fiddle, and I wouldn't disagree. Also other, better French names occasionally mentioned, but I don't think so.

The scroll, doesn't convince me totally either although the angle of the photo may have altered the actual profile of the volute, so I think it's probably right.

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Hard to judge anything from a YouTube clip but I think the seller obviously likes it and I'd believe his assessment that it's "powerful".

Given the back length I'd say definitely German, the neck graft a repair .... don't think you missed anything! These long Maggini copies can be very loud but in my experience a bit lacking in pliability/playability and hard to get a singing tone out of. $4000 very steep price indeed, we may yet see it re-listed! I would be a bit shocked if a shop over here sold it for over £1500 given the repairs to the front.

Raises an interesting moral issue - the seller seems honourable and the selling method is transparent, yet this violin has sold for a lot more than it's worth in anyone's book. Could raise problems for the seller when the buyer (presumably at a distance) goes to get an appraisal .....

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the honourable seller also has another name and store in kentucky!!! note the same guy in the video, this ones grafted? too, no returns, not a good sign.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Powerful-Old-Fine-Violin-Francesco-Ruggeri-Grafted-/250879355448?_trksid=p4340.m185&_trkparms=algo%3DSIC.NPJS%26its%3DI%26itu%3DUA%26otn%3D5%26pmod%3D230665127299%26ps%3D63%26clkid%3D2410725399387418662

well actually both ads give the name of a shop in kentucky not nashville, same seller, the ruggieris a copy, right?? actually nashville is a great place to pick up cheap fiddles now, maybe kentucky is too.

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lyndon, well spotted .... another "very powerful" violin

I wonder if the violins behind him are in Tennessee or Kentucky?

talking of which, here's another great use of a backdrop ....

mysticviolins

I notice these people have about 8 violins in stock, one of which is this vastly overpriced and mis-labelled mis-attributed "derazey", so whose shop did they film the video in?

of course it all serves to illustrate that YouTube "soundfiles" are a joke (a bad joke)

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Many of the better French ones have an extra turn of the scroll, dont know why but even Vuillaume did it. Without the extra turn i doubt its French.

FC is correct... The extra turn is often present on the French copies... even those by Bernardel, but I'm not sure I could say "all", and even if one could, then we're into considering if the head on the fiddle in question is original or not. (I'm not saying it is or isn't, but a swapped head would be another complication to ID).

I will say that some of the 19th century French "copy" stuff is really difficult to sort out (at least for me). There was a great deal of interaction (I had a 'cello by Caussin, a Tecchler copy, with an internal notation that crediting Derazey's participation, etc.). The style of antiquing was similar in several of the shops. I think the tendency is to revert to makers one is familiar with in the French school and stop there, saying "it's something like a....". I recall a very nice Brescian model violin that came in to the shop about 20 years ago... presented similarly to the one in question. I examined it, all the while coming up with the makers I'd normally suspect within that school but not being completely comfortable hanging my hat on one of the the choices... brushed out the inside of the back and blew out the dust to see if any other markings were present and discovered a very clear "Grandjon pere" brand. He certainly wasn't on my short list at the time. There is another Brescian model fiddle I know that was traded as a Chanot before markings were found that indicated it was made by Vuillaume.

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FC is correct... The extra turn is often present on the French copies... even those by Bernardel, but I'm not sure I could say "all", and even if one could, then we're into considering if the head on the fiddle in question is original or not. (I'm not saying it is or isn't, but a swapped head would be another complication to ID).

I will say that some of the 19th century French "copy" stuff is really difficult to sort out (at least for me).

I think that all 19th C "copy stuff" is really diffucult for any mortal to sort out.

I recently bought the "Geigen Klumpert" (violin junk) from a builder, who had bought the house of the late widdow of the violin maker, Trostler, who had had the foremost shop in Vienna until the 1960's. This shop went back to Jaura in the 19th C. and the "Klumpert" also included no end of compleatly finished, ready to use sets of ribs from Zach, along with pre milled bellies and much else. Amongst the finished scrolls were a couple of faultless "Maggini" with the extra turn, which I presume came from a Markneukirchen supplier, 1870ish. I don't therefore imagine that the "extra turn" is of any significance at all when trying to determine where a violin came from, since the Markneukirchen wholesalers would have just as happily taken french money.

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Michael ,that wouldnt be Kolicker would it, he was a German working in Paris,a few of the better French makers of the time were associated with him and he was particularly good at making `antiqued instruments`.

Lütgendorff has Koliker as a Swiss, who was a dealer (e.g. with Tarisio) and repairer but not a maker of new instruments. Also the source of dodgy ancient instruments like Kerlino or Gaspar Tiefenbrunner etc. Seems like a handy name to attribute almost anything unrecognisable to.

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Jacob, ive also heard of him being Swiss as well as German,most people on google with the name kollicker(two `l`s ) are Swiss. I cant remmember who he was associated with or worked for him but it was someone like Clement,Augiere,Calot,Lete,Chanot,etc... The Parisian dealers had instruments made for them as well as some of them supposedly makers themselves.

I had a Clement from the 1820`s ,but it could of been made by any of the makers i just mentioned.Though it was a Strad model. Ive seen a few Augiere`s and saw a good Maggini model by him.

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