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Posible $200K violin PLEASE HELP!!!


HullGuitars
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Please help me. I think I may have something real special. I am a collector, with a good amount of experience. But this has me stumped.

I saw a story on some violins in Israel called the "violins of hope”. They were a series of 18 violins reclaimed and restored from the holocaust. Some had the Star of David identical to a violin i purchased last week. The violin has belonged to a friend of mine for at least 25 years. And is literally IDENTICLE to a few of the "violins of hope". Varnish, inlay, everything. My question is, are violins like this common? Is it possible this is a copy? It is unlabeled. I will post some pictures if I can, or you can go to the eBay auction for it here.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=280718716419&ssPageName=STRK:MESOX:IT

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Please help me. I think I may have something real special. I am a collector, with a good amount of experience. But this has me stumped.

I saw a story on some violins in Israel called the "violins of hope”. They were a series of 18 violins reclaimed and restored from the holocaust. Some had the Star of David identical to a violin i purchased last week. The violin has belonged to a friend of mine for at least 25 years. And is literally IDENTICLE to a few of the "violins of hope". Varnish, inlay, everything. My question is, are violins like this common? Is it possible this is a copy? It is unlabeled. I will post some pictures if I can, or you can go to the eBay auction for it here.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=280718716419&ssPageName=STRK:MESOX:IT

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No two violins are identical. There may be some difference that you may overlook.

Who would say look alike violins should sell for the same price?

If you buy from ebay make sure you can return it if you don't like it. On the other hand, which seller would refund your money after you bought

it? Most sellers would not want to be bothered. Best way is to try it first. if you like it buy it.

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Please help me. I think I may have something real special. I am a collector, with a good amount of experience. But this has me stumped.

I saw a story on some violins in Israel called the "violins of hope”. They were a series of 18 violins reclaimed and restored from the holocaust. Some had the Star of David identical to a violin i purchased last week. The violin has belonged to a friend of mine for at least 25 years. And is literally IDENTICLE to a few of the "violins of hope". Varnish, inlay, everything. My question is, are violins like this common? Is it possible this is a copy? It is unlabeled. I will post some pictures if I can, or you can go to the eBay auction for it here.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=280718716419&ssPageName=STRK:MESOX:IT

The violin in the ebay auction is a "fancy violin" as advertised by the Markneukirchen wholesalers, and probably made in Schönbach, at the end of the 19th C. It is in need of repairwork, which will almost certainly cost more than the fiddle is worth. ie. currently worthless.

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...I have seen many violins and never one similar to this one...

I have seen quite a few similar to this and I've had a few. The fancy purfling around the edges and the inlaid flower in the fingerboard are standard. The designs on the back vary. I'm not sure if I've ever seen one with a Star of David, but I agree with jacobsaunders' assessment.

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i have never heard of a violin looking like this going for a lot of money but i have seen lots of them going in the 500-1500 range on ebay, the only violins with inlay in the back that go for a lot of money are 300ys old and older and much more ornate, and totally different in design, i would definetly say if this is the ebay violin you bought you greatly overpayed, as jacob says the repairs would almost cost more than the violins worth, which is about 1000usd fully repaired

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Please help me. I think I may have something real special. I am a collector, with a good amount of experience. But this has me stumped.

I saw a story on some violins in Israel called the "violins of hope”. They were a series of 18 violins reclaimed and restored from the holocaust. Some had the Star of David identical to a violin i purchased last week. The violin has belonged to a friend of mine for at least 25 years. And is literally IDENTICLE to a few of the "violins of hope". Varnish, inlay, everything. My question is, are violins like this common? Is it possible this is a copy? It is unlabeled. I will post some pictures if I can, or you can go to the eBay auction for it here.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=280718716419&ssPageName=STRK:MESOX:IT

Hello,

Might it be best for you to contact Mr. Ammon Wienstein about the instrument in question?

It may not be of great value, but perhaps of historical interest to someone in Israel.

http://www.keshetei.org.il/team_EN.asp?p_cat=15&p_team=31

Links to youtube videos below.

They're in Hebrew but one can get the point.

Part-1:

Part-2:

-----------

jmann

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sorry jmann but i dont get the point or speak hebrew, obviously there were lots of good and great jewish violin makers all over europe with one thing in common, they didnt do cheap star of david inlays in the back of their violins, the ones that did were cheap factory instruments and are not rare

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sorry jmann but i dont get the point or speak hebrew, obviously there were lots of good and great jewish violin makers all over europe with one thing in common, they didnt do cheap star of david inlays in the back of their violins, the ones that did were cheap factory instruments and are not rare

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The price is about right, ie, $1500. (not more)

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The price is about right, ie, $1500. (not more)

$1500 is the right price for what? If you came to my shop, or Taylors fine violins, or I'm sure you're local violin shop wherever you are, with $1500, you would have a choice of good looking and sounding fully repaired old german "trade" violins. The instrument in question has already cost that much and would require spending almost as much again to be repaired to a high standard. If you were english, I would suggest you're saveing it for the 5th. November.

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$1500 is the right price for what? If you came to my shop, or Taylors fine violins, or I'm sure you're local violin shop wherever you are, with $1500, you would have a choice of good looking and sounding fully repaired old german "trade" violins. The instrument in question has already cost that much and would require spending almost as much again to be repaired to a high standard. If you were english, I would suggest you're saveing it for the 5th. November.

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$1500 is a ball park number. $1700 is not wrong. You are right about the value of the violin,repair cost should be factored in.

That is, Making it in a playble condition is important.All costs add up. Is 5th of November a tax free day? No government allows that.

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+++++++++++

$1500 is a ball park number. $1700 is not wrong. You are right about the value of the violin,repair cost should be factored in.

That is, Making it in a playble condition is important.All costs add up. Is 5th of November a tax free day? No government allows that.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guy_Fawkes_Night

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I think the value of this kind of violin is determined by other factors than the ones mentioned. I would perfectly understand that israeli or jewish musicians or collectors would be interested in this, far beyond its immediate commercial value, as a remain of their lost history. So $1500 would be quite legitimate, even if it is a cheap Schonbach factory instrument.

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I think the value of this kind of violin is determined by other factors than the ones mentioned. I would perfectly understand that israeli or jewish musicians or collectors would be interested in this, far beyond its immediate commercial value, as a remain of their lost history. So $1500 would be quite legitimate, even if it is a cheap Schonbach factory instrument.

Not being in any way remotely an expert on "Stars of David" I don't believe that this even is one. As I understand it, a "Star of David" is two triangles, weaved together, leaving a Hexagon (? figure with 6 corners)in the middle.

I can't imagine that it represents anything to do with anybodys history, lost or otherwise. Selling a worthless Schönbach box for $1500 because it has a phony non-Star of David on the back would be a double swindle.

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Not being in any way remotely an expert on "Stars of David" I don't believe that this even is one. As I understand it, a "Star of David" is two triangles, weaved together, leaving a Hexagon (? figure with 6 corners)in the middle.

I can't imagine that it represents anything to do with anybodys history, lost or otherwise. Selling a worthless Schönbach box for $1500 because it has a phony non-Star of David on the back would be a double swindle.

AMEN!!

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Not being in any way remotely an expert on "Stars of David" I don't believe that this even is one. As I understand it, a "Star of David" is two triangles, weaved together, leaving a Hexagon (? figure with 6 corners)in the middle.

I can't imagine that it represents anything to do with anybodys history, lost or otherwise. Selling a worthless Schönbach box for $1500 because it has a phony non-Star of David on the back would be a double swindle.

External shape could be understand as one, and in the video which have been posted, the violins have exactly the same on back. Of course it could be violins rescued from the Shoah and having randomly this kind of decoration, but I doubt it. We would need a specialist here (anyone?). For sure the violin itself is awful, and certainly not "by all accounts Italian. I took it to three master luthiers in town and they all agreed it is an Italian piece", but it was not my point.

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Quote from Amnon Weinstein ``Almost all were made in Germany and Czechoslovakia in small workshops. Others were made by luthiers, such as Wagner. I look for them in Europe and to a lesser extent in Israel. After the war 85 per cent of refugees left for the US. They wanted to be safe. Some of my American colleagues get in touch with me when they come across a violin with the Star of David. Nowadays, with photos and the internet, it’s easy."

What i cant figure is what is their significance.I was assuming they were supposedly Nazi seized items,in which case they would have usually just stuck a sticker on them or a stamp of the Star of David.(of which i have seen one or two. I find it hard to believe that Jewish violinists would purposefully buy violins with this inlay on the back or the Nazis would inlay them.Am i missing something.

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What i cant figure is what is their significance.I was assuming they were supposedly Nazi seized items,in which case they would have usually just stuck a sticker on them or a stamp of the Star of David.(of which i have seen one or two. I find it hard to believe that Jewish violinists would purposefully buy violins with this inlay on the back or the Nazis would inlay them.Am i missing something.

We may presume that these violins were made for the jewish community before the Nazis accessed power in Germany, or even the spread of their ideas. It would have been quite dangerous to keep them, but what wouldn't have been dangerous for jewish people at the time?

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We may presume that these violins were made for the jewish community before the Nazis accessed power in Germany, or even the spread of their ideas. It would have been quite dangerous to keep them, but what wouldn't have been dangerous for jewish people at the time?

BOLLOCKS!

A cheap and nasty worthless violin made pre 1900 in Schönbach for the Markneukirchen trade, and presumably exported to some american department store, has nothing to do with Nazis, Holocaust or the German Jewish community and doesn't even have a "star of david" either, rather any old ornament, in this case some random star.

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We may presume that these violins were made for the jewish community before the Nazis accessed power in Germany, or even the spread of their ideas. It would have been quite dangerous to keep them, but what wouldn't have been dangerous for jewish people at the time?

We may presume that, but only if we don't know what the hell we are presuming. Also, your avatar creeps me out.

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I like you mr saunders.

Calling a spade a spade in any language is something that I appreciate, in addition to your fearsome violin knowledge.

Oskar Wilde wrote in his novel "The Picture of Dorian Gray":

"Anyone dull enough to insist upon calling a spade a spade, should be compelled to use one"

(or words to that effect)

Is that what you meant?

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