jacobsaunders Posted May 31, 2011 Report Share Posted May 31, 2011 I mentioned the neck graft in relation to possible stock numbers which are present on both Hills and most Beares grafted instruments. Don’t know about Joe Blogs though. I though it relevant which is why I mentioned it, but whether the information on those numbers is necessarily retrievable or available is a different matter. Oh sorry, I see, I get your point: I have just always found it frustrating to go into exhaustive correspondence, just to find out that the workshop foreman somewhere or somewhere else, noted in the ‘30’s “A violin labeled Boller”, since the Hills and Beares were no more bothered about violins in this price range then, than they are now. I find it much more profitable to try and work it out from the bits that I presume are still original. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Richf Posted May 31, 2011 Report Share Posted May 31, 2011 "To check if it is from Mittenwald, I would look for....." What about those pins on the top and bottom of the top plates? Whenever I see those I think southern Germany or Austria. A bad assumption? (This "Boller" may not be pinned in that fashion. I'm just wondering in general.) Richard Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jacobsaunders Posted May 31, 2011 Report Share Posted May 31, 2011 "To check if it is from Mittenwald, I would look for....." What about those pins on the top and bottom of the top plates? Whenever I see those I think southern Germany or Austria. A bad assumption? (This "Boller" may not be pinned in that fashion. I'm just wondering in general.) Richard I'm sorry, but I can only see a pin through the button, which is surely a repair. I'm afraid I don't have pins of any sort on my Mittenwald checklist, although I obviously havn't noticed everything, since Martin has caught me out for not noticing the "wrong" spelling once in this thread already. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
martin swan Posted May 31, 2011 Report Share Posted May 31, 2011 Jacob, Where do you stand in relation to the so-called "Mittenwald notch" as seen on the bottom rib of this violin? I was taught that this was a valuable aid to identification, but since I got into maestronet I am questioning everything. By the way, clocked your caveat about early German spelling, you ARE the man! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jacobsaunders Posted May 31, 2011 Report Share Posted May 31, 2011 Jacob, Where do you stand in relation to the so-called "Mittenwald notch" as seen on the bottom rib of this violin? I was taught that this was a valuable aid to identification, but since I got into maestronet I am questioning everything. By the way, clocked your caveat about early German spelling, you ARE the man! Dear Martin, The Mittenwald "notch" is a matter of fact. If you see it, you can start thinking about Mittenwald. The problem is that you find "Mittenwald notches" elsewhere too (Vienna, Preßburg, Krems for instance), you should tell me if there are scottish "Mittenwald notches" too. Therefore a "Mittenwald notch" is only an invitation to check out for other Mittenwald features and not foolproof evidence that it must come from Mittenwald. The other problem is that these "notches" often disapear when it is neccesary to shorten the bottom rib. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
martin swan Posted May 31, 2011 Report Share Posted May 31, 2011 OK that makes a lot of sense. I haven't spotted any Scottish Mittenwald notches (except of course on Thomas Craig's High Class Violins, some of which were made in Mittenwald!). One piece bottom ribs aren't uncommon in late 19th century Scottish work ... but notchless. I think your typical Scottish maker just took a nip of whisky for courage and stabbed a bradawl in the general direction of the endpin. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jacobsaunders Posted May 31, 2011 Report Share Posted May 31, 2011 I think your typical Scottish maker just took a nip of whisky for courage and stabbed a bradawl in the general direction of the endpin. Practise makes perfect! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
fiddlecollector Posted May 31, 2011 Report Share Posted May 31, 2011 Practise makes perfect! I had a violin by William Smith of Sheffield (circa 1770-80)in almost original condition ,it had a drop down saddle and a notch. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Addie Posted May 31, 2011 Report Share Posted May 31, 2011 I had a violin by William Smith of Sheffield (circa 1770-80)in almost original condition, it had a drop down saddle and a notch. Love the tailpiece. Is the neck Baroque or Classical? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jacobsaunders Posted May 31, 2011 Report Share Posted May 31, 2011 Love the tailpiece. Is the neck Baroque or Classical? What is the difference between Baroque and Classical? The Tailpiece looks like it could come from here. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
martin swan Posted May 31, 2011 Report Share Posted May 31, 2011 I'd have assumed that was a Mittenwald violin! I'd be fascinated to know more about William Smith - Sheffield's my home town. I know of a William Smith in London in the late 1700s ... is it the same fella? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
fiddlecollector Posted May 31, 2011 Report Share Posted May 31, 2011 The neck was adjusted at the heel(not by me) ,it was the original neck/scroll, NO graft.See rather old jpeg. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
tarisiosfever Posted May 31, 2011 Report Share Posted May 31, 2011 Georg Klotz labels are spelt Iser not Isar, other Klotzs too, and I'm sure I've seen Iser on other authentic labels... Indeed, most "Kloz" labels say so. Though I've seen a handwritten "Kloz" label with "Isar" on it, probably fake(?) Thanks, guys for the instructive comments. T. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ratcliffiddles Posted May 31, 2011 Report Share Posted May 31, 2011 I'd have assumed that was a Mittenwald violin! I'd be fascinated to know more about William Smith - Sheffield's my home town. I know of a William Smith in London in the late 1700s ... is it the same fella? Same bloke, I have a cello by him. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
fiddlecollector Posted May 31, 2011 Report Share Posted May 31, 2011 Same bloke, I have a cello by him. Peter, you mean Thomas Smith??? Theres a William Smith viola here that just looks like an enlargement of the the violin i had. Smith Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ratcliffiddles Posted May 31, 2011 Report Share Posted May 31, 2011 Peter, you mean Thomas Smith??? Theres a William Smith viola here that just looks like an enlargement of the the violin i had. Smith No, I mean William Smith, Bob. I know about Jose's viola, and yes it looks just like yours! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jacobsaunders Posted May 31, 2011 Report Share Posted May 31, 2011 Same bloke, I have a cello by him. The obvious questions: Is you're cello from Sheffield or London? Does it have a mittenwald "notch"? Do you think you could be so kind and show us some pictures? many thanks Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ratcliffiddles Posted May 31, 2011 Report Share Posted May 31, 2011 The obvious questions: Is you're cello from Sheffield or London? Does it have a mittenwald "notch"? Do you think you could be so kind and show us some pictures? many thanks Sure Jacob, I'll take a few pix tomorrow. Mine is London period, sadly, wrong head. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jacobsaunders Posted May 31, 2011 Report Share Posted May 31, 2011 Sure Jacob, I'll take a few pix tomorrow. Mine is London period, sadly, wrong head. Great, will look forward to that: (Does it have a mittenwald "notch"?) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
fiddlecollector Posted May 31, 2011 Report Share Posted May 31, 2011 Heres pics of the scroll and back. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Omobono Posted June 1, 2011 Report Share Posted June 1, 2011 Find it easier to look at it this way - No special comment to add. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jacobsaunders Posted June 1, 2011 Report Share Posted June 1, 2011 Find it easier to look at it this way - No special comment to add. You might just like to mention that that is the so called "Boller" and not the Smith just so nobody gets confused Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Dave Slight Posted June 1, 2011 Report Share Posted June 1, 2011 William Smith moved around quite a bit, for a period he also worked in Stockport. Very nice work and good varnish for the period. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ratcliffiddles Posted June 1, 2011 Report Share Posted June 1, 2011 Great, will look forward to that: (Does it have a mittenwald "notch"?) No "Mittenwald" notch . But I've never thought the notch was much more than determining the centre of a one piece rib (as I suspect you do), probably more common on violins then cellos. The bottom ribs on this William Smith cello are joined at the bottom, and as you pointed out, notches can easily disappear and a joint can appear, when bulging or deformed ribs require shortening. In the W.Smith case, the ribs where always separate pieces. Sorry Flying fiddler, it looks like we've hijacked your thread... Click on picture for further images Quote Link to post Share on other sites
martin swan Posted June 1, 2011 Report Share Posted June 1, 2011 But fiddlecollector's William Smith violin (Sheffield) had a one-piece bottom rib, hence the notch - or do you just mean William Smith cellos? Do you get one-piece ribs on cellos - I am pretty ignorant when it comes to cellos Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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