James M. Jones Posted May 24, 2011 Report Posted May 24, 2011 I know what is is.I would like to understand why it is. Any help would be greatly appreacieted. thanks.
Craig Tucker Posted May 24, 2011 Report Posted May 24, 2011 I know what is is.I would like to understand why it is. Any help would be greatly appreacieted. thanks. Me too. Great question. My guess would be to ward off possible weak points in the plate design where collapse or deformation can occure. I await further ideas from people who have first hand observations of the (aged) plates in question.
Selim Posted May 24, 2011 Report Posted May 24, 2011 I may be wrong, My limited understanding is that it is adding stiffness.
James M. Jones Posted May 24, 2011 Author Report Posted May 24, 2011 Care to explain what it is? A flat area on top and back plates that extends horizontaly east west by the top and bottom blocks....I can see some acoustic effect due to mass and stiffness. but am courious what others think.
jacobsaunders Posted May 24, 2011 Report Posted May 24, 2011 I know what is is.I would like to understand why it is. Any help would be greatly appreacieted. thanks. Do you mean with "Saconni Plateau" the not hollowing out of the plates to either side of the blocks, or something compleatly different?
James M. Jones Posted May 24, 2011 Author Report Posted May 24, 2011 I may be wrong, My limited understanding is that it is adding stiffness. added stifness in the transverse and as weights longitudaly? do you use it? what of historical makers?
James M. Jones Posted May 24, 2011 Author Report Posted May 24, 2011 Do you mean with "Saconni Plateau" the not hollowing out of the plates to either side of the blocks, or something compleatly different? yes, the not hollowing out of the plates ...Is there another plateau I am unaware of?
James M. Jones Posted May 24, 2011 Author Report Posted May 24, 2011 Crack prevention. so is this a "new" idea? Has anyone seen any acoustical effects due to it's use?
jacobsaunders Posted May 24, 2011 Report Posted May 24, 2011 yes, the not hollowing out of the plates ...Is there another plateau I am unaware of? this isn't remotely a plateau either
Torbjörn Zethelius Posted May 24, 2011 Report Posted May 24, 2011 A flat area on top and back plates that extends horizontaly east west by the top and bottom blocks....I can see some acoustic effect due to mass and stiffness. but am courious what others think. Aha. They add stiffness/strength to those parts plus they mark the borders for the inside scoop. In my system for arching the inside, they form the rectangle that make up the long arch.
Michael_Molnar Posted May 24, 2011 Report Posted May 24, 2011 I thought it was intended to increase the cross-plate stiffness (the E2 mode), which I now believe to be a red herring. I did not think about crack (split) prevention as Anders suggests. But, IMHO I think this is overkill if that is the purpose. Stay Tuned. Mike
Don Noon Posted May 24, 2011 Report Posted May 24, 2011 I have generally had it in my mind that carving tightly around the blocks would give more active area, more bass response. That might or might not be true, and even if it is true, I have no idea how big of an effect it is, and if there's any downside to it. I can also hypothesize that the irregular edge shape of such carving could have some influence on middle and high frequencies, too... good or bad, who knows. I would be interested in the results of any tests; maybe I'll do some myself soon. My current opinion, based on absolutely nothing: the differences will be small, difficult to sort out from all the other variables, and even more difficult to conclude if the differences are bad or good.
James M. Jones Posted May 24, 2011 Author Report Posted May 24, 2011 this isn't remotely a plateau either right .I understand, Some of the things I hear here ...A plateau would be a flat top rise like a cut off mountian top. so what do we call the feature? does it have a proper name? It does seem a little over kill as far as crack prevention. I cut out mine and noticed a great ammount of flex in the upper and lower bouts as a result.I think also about 3 gms. for the top came off as well. As far as historicle use... was it used? I mean by Strad. or DGU or any of the great masters of the past??
Selim Posted May 24, 2011 Report Posted May 24, 2011 added stifness in the transverse and as weights longitudaly? do you use it? what of historical makers? Yes, I do use in Strad design. I think it has effect on power. I don't think it is much help in DG. I am curious if original plates from DG has any thing like that. Any observations?
jacobsaunders Posted May 24, 2011 Report Posted May 24, 2011 right .I understand, Some of the things I hear here ...A plateau would be a flat top rise like a cut off mountian top. so what do we call the feature? does it have a proper name? It does seem a little over kill as far as crack prevention. I cut out mine and noticed a great ammount of flex in the upper and lower bouts as a result.I think also about 3 gms. for the top came off as well. As far as historicle use... was it used? I mean by Strad. or DGU or any of the great masters of the past?? I have never ever seen it used in any historical instrument of any school, only in new instruments where I think to myself, Ah ha, this bloke has been reading Sacconi
Melvin Goldsmith Posted May 24, 2011 Report Posted May 24, 2011 I think the concept of the existence of this plateau on Strads is somewhat exaggerated by the discourse in comparison to what actually is/was there. With a classic Cremonese long arch (see recent photos of the Lady Blunt Strad under the FB) does not raise much until it leaves the block so the areas on either side of the block are not going to be all that significantly thicker than the gradated plate nearby.
James M. Jones Posted May 24, 2011 Author Report Posted May 24, 2011 I have never ever seen it used in any historical instrument of any school, only in new instruments where I think to myself, Ah ha, this bloke has been reading Sacconi OK that helps my understanding ,Thanks Jacob,,, I am always amazed at how people want to recreate Strad's .or.DGU's.or so and so's...the Cremonesse sound, yet do not follow the construction guidlines,!the ammount of flex I noticed when I carved the mass away was very distinct and I believe there must be at least some acoustic effect. I know VERY little of historic violins and so your expertese is very appreciated. My sinceare thanks
JohnCockburn Posted May 24, 2011 Report Posted May 24, 2011 I leave a "plateau" because I find it hard to believe it makes very much difference one way or the other, and it's less work. I've read Sacconi, but don't recall him making a big deal about it. Isn't it what they teach at Newark? PS I don't think "more flex" equates to "acoustically good"
James M. Jones Posted May 24, 2011 Author Report Posted May 24, 2011 I leave a "plateau" because I find it hard to believe it makes very much difference one way or the other, and it's less work. I've read Sacconi, but don't recall him making a big deal about it. Isn't it what they teach at Newark? I am Not hung up on tap tones....that said I noticed a distinct rise in the tone after removing the platform (perhaps "platform" is more accurate?)on both tops I am currently working on,as if removing weights from the end of a tunning fork....as well as substantialy more flex in the east west direction. How could this not have some,if only a bit, impact on tonal production?
JohnCockburn Posted May 24, 2011 Report Posted May 24, 2011 I am Not hung up on tap tones....that said I noticed a distinct rise in the tone after removing the platform (perhaps "platform" is more accurate?)on both tops I am currently working on,as if removing weights from the end of a tunning fork....as well as substantialy more flex in the east west direction. How could this not have some,if only a bit, impact on tonal production? Maybe you're right. The person whose opinions I trust most likes strength around the edges, so I go with that.
Oded Kishony Posted May 24, 2011 Report Posted May 24, 2011 I'd had occasion to remove this platform from my own instruments and came to the conclusion that they inhibit sound production. IMO the lower block area in particular is a very active acoustical region where the platform has the least benefit and the most detriment. Oded
Melvin Goldsmith Posted May 24, 2011 Report Posted May 24, 2011 right .I understand, Some of the things I hear here ...A plateau would be a flat top rise like a cut off mountian top. so what do we call the feature? does it have a proper name? It does seem a little over kill as far as crack prevention. I cut out mine and noticed a great ammount of flex in the upper and lower bouts as a result.I think also about 3 gms. for the top came off as well. As far as historicle use... was it used? I mean by Strad. or DGU or any of the great masters of the past?? I just weighed out 3 gms and it is the equivalent of 5 soundposts. That my friend is quite a lot of wood...more than I would expect to see in a old Cremonese even if they had a Sacconi Plateau.
JohnCockburn Posted May 24, 2011 Report Posted May 24, 2011 I just weighed out 3 gms and it is the equivalent of 5 soundposts. That my fiend is quite a lot of wood...more than I would expect to see in a old Cremonese even if they had a Sacconi Plateau. I missed that. There's no way the plateaux add 3g, unless you're comparing with a situation where you're really digging in around the blocks. And I'm sure that wouldn't be a good idea.
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now