scordatura Posted May 18, 2011 Report Share Posted May 18, 2011 Does anyone know about the next VSA competition/convention location and date? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
violinfan Posted May 19, 2011 Report Share Posted May 19, 2011 Does anyone know about the next VSA competition/convention location and date? Next VSA convention is in Timonium, Maryland, Nov 3-5, 2011. http://www.vsa.to/nextconvention.htm Next competition is in 2012, I believe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MeyerFittings Posted May 19, 2011 Report Share Posted May 19, 2011 Next VSA convention is in Timonium, Maryland, Nov 3-5, 2011. http://www.vsa.to/nextconvention.htm Next competition is in 2012, I believe. I think the next competition is back in Cleveland. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skiingfiddler Posted May 19, 2011 Report Share Posted May 19, 2011 Next VSA convention is in Timonium, Maryland, Nov 3-5, 2011. Counting the 2011 convention, there will have been 19 odd year (as in 1973, 1975, 1977, ... 2009, 2011) conventions east of the Mississippi and 1 west of the Mississippi. That one was in 1991 in Vermillion, South Dakota, just a few hundred miles west of the Mississippi. What's so repulsive about the West Coast or the Mountain West when it comes to picking the sites for the odd year VSA conventions? Who would have thought that VSA stands for Violin Society of the Eastern Half of America. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael_Molnar Posted May 19, 2011 Report Share Posted May 19, 2011 ... . Who would have thought that VSA stands for Violin Society of the Eastern Half of America. I heard that the vast majority of makers are located in the Northeast. If so, that may explain the selection. Stay Tuned. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeffrey Holmes Posted May 19, 2011 Report Share Posted May 19, 2011 Who would have thought that VSA stands for Violin Society of the Eastern Half of America. Ski. Old news. We've already "been there" on this issue. We even emailed back and forth about it when I was on the board. Economics and logistics (attendance, density, costs, transport, venue), pure and simple. That hasn't changed since last discussed. Every effort is made to alternate coasts for the competition, but that's a different set of economics and logistics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skiingfiddler Posted May 19, 2011 Report Share Posted May 19, 2011 Ski. Old news. We've already "been there" on this issue. Old news indeed. As long as the VSA shamelessly chooses to ignore the issue, I'll shamelessly bring it up. Sometimes you've got to embarrass people into doing the right thing. Maybe the VSA should offer a membership discount to us westerners to reflect our "auxiliary" status. 19 to 1, what an unjustified bias! Michael states: "I heard that the vast majority of makers are located in the Northeast. If so, that may explain the selection." That may be true. Seems to me that by holding conventions in other parts of the country, you'd increase membership from those other parts of the country. You can run an organization with growth in mind or you can run it for the comfort and convenience of the people already in it. The VSA is choosing, again and again, to do the latter. Nobody's asking for perfect parity, but 19 to 1 for a supposed national organization? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeffrey Holmes Posted May 19, 2011 Report Share Posted May 19, 2011 Old news indeed. As long as the VSA shamelessly chooses to ignore the issue, I'll shamelessly bring it up. Sometimes you've got to embarrass people into doing the right thing. Maybe the VSA should offer a membership discount to us westerners to reflect our "auxiliary" status. 19 to 1, what an unjustified bias! Michael states: "I heard that the vast majority of makers are located in the Northeast. If so, that may explain the selection." That may be true. Seems to me that by holding conventions in other parts of the country, you'd increase membership from those other parts of the country. You can run an organization with growth in mind or you can run it for the comfort and convenience of the people already in it. The VSA is choosing, again and again, to do the latter. Nobody's asking for perfect parity, but 19 to 1 for a supposed national organization? You know, most of the time I think I like you... and sometimes I don't. This time I find you insulting. Spending time emailing you back and forth about the issue a few years ago, and then bringing the information to the board for discussion isn't what I'd call "shamelessly ignoring" the issue... no matter if you like the outcome or not. You seem to discount the fact that 1 out of 4 meetings (every other competition) is presently held in the west. Only counting the off years and not acknowledging communication sounds like political presentation of statistics and recent events (attention to the issue). This organization is volunteer based, and thrives on involvement from the members. You were kind enough to provide some possible host shop names, but those shops have to have an interest (volunteer) and the ability to host a convention. If you're really passionate about moving this along, I think it would be a whole lot more productive to offer your time to the board in order to consider possible sites, then assist in solving the cost, vendor access, and the transportation issues involved. Overcoming these challenges are key. Low attendance, increased costs (logistics for participants, presenters and vendors) or (the possible resulting) low vendor participation on (marginal income vs. expense) off years means we'd all be paying a good deal more in dues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Burgess Posted May 19, 2011 Report Share Posted May 19, 2011 At least you're a lot closer than the people who come from China and Australia. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken Pollard Posted May 19, 2011 Report Share Posted May 19, 2011 At least you're a lot closer than the people who come from China and Australia. ... although the flight schedule might cover that much distance! I don't care about the location of the VSA convention, except I'd like it noted when it's to be held in a county that has 70,000 people per square mile. I'd be sure to avoid that one! Cheers, Ken (in a red county, but happily surrounded by pale yellow) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flyboy Posted May 19, 2011 Report Share Posted May 19, 2011 ... although the flight schedule might cover that much distance! I don't care about the location of the VSA convention, except I'd like it noted when it's to be held in a county that has 70,000 people per square mile. I'd be sure to avoid that one! Cheers, Ken (in a red county, but happily surrounded by pale yellow) Last I checked, the population density in Manhattan (NYC) was ~67,000 people per square mile. I'd love it if a VSA competition was held in or around NYC. Attendees not wanting to pay the absurdly premium prices for hotels in Manhattan can go across the river in NJ or Long Island (rates a bit more down to earth), easily accessible via mass transit. Given the choice of NYC vs Cleveland, NYC would win every time for me. I personally know quite a number of folks who didn't bother attending VSA in Cleveland because the locale held no interest for them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken Pollard Posted May 19, 2011 Report Share Posted May 19, 2011 Last I checked, the population density in Manhattan (NYC) was ~67,000 people per square mile. I'd love it if a VSA competition was held in or around NYC. Attendees not wanting to pay the absurdly premium prices for hotels in Manhattan can go across the river in NJ or Long Island (rates a bit more down to earth), easily accessible via mass transit. Given the choice of NYC vs Cleveland, NYC would win every time for me. I personally know quite a number of folks who didn't bother attending VSA in Cleveland because the locale held no interest for them. NYC could be interesting. Cleveland could be interesting. I was really just having fun with the map, which jumped from 399 to 70,000 in one color change. At 67,000, that's a little over 400 square feet per person. I feel uncomfortable when I have less than 450 square feet to stretch out in. I imagine cellists or bass players would feel it even more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeffrey Holmes Posted May 19, 2011 Report Share Posted May 19, 2011 I'd love it if a VSA competition was held in or around NYC. Attendees not wanting to pay the absurdly premium prices for hotels in Manhattan can go across the river in NJ or Long Island (rates a bit more down to earth), easily accessible via mass transit. I don't do this stuff any more, but just so site selection criteria is understood a bit better: A hotel offers a special rate for conventions, but the expected number of hotel rooms occupied (sold) within the venue still goes to offsetting the cost of the public spaces (for lectures, vendors, banquets, exhibitions). Room rates in Manhattan chasing attendees to Long Island, even with good convention attendance, could unfortunately end up increasing costs of the convention... as would low attendance if the convention was held in a really unappealing location, a poor venue, or a difficult place to travel to. In other words, it's a balancing act. Personally, I'd love St. John for a venue when it's cold here in the mid-west... but no... maybe I'd have more fun simply vacationing there and leaving the violin geek stuff for elsewhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James M. Jones Posted May 19, 2011 Report Share Posted May 19, 2011 Jeffery, as far as funding goes, has the VSA ever done any kind of live auction? I ask because the international blacksmiths ABANA confrence always held one and it brought in quite some dollars($26,000-$50,000 I think) to help cover expencess. tools, wood, instruments, ect. it all adds up and was acually a highlight of the confrence....with folks paying top dollar ,for say a worn file from Mr. Burgess or A set of custom fittings by Meyer ......even I have something ,an extra,corner block gouge.It also serves as good advertizing for the donners,as studies show that people are more likley to buy from providers who give to there community,when givven the choice. I know some might feel it tackey but considering the recent lady Blunt auction it could be a fit. It also is a way of relieving some of the east coast west coast tension, that is the more fiscaly independant the confrence is from other VSA services the less likley it is to loose memberships. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Noykos Posted May 19, 2011 Report Share Posted May 19, 2011 I believe they had an auction like this at the last convention. Although I think the money might have gone to scholarships. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skiingfiddler Posted May 19, 2011 Report Share Posted May 19, 2011 You know, most of the time I think I like you... and sometimes I don't. This time I find you insulting. Spending time emailing you back and forth about the issue a few years ago, and then bringing the information to the board for discussion isn't what I'd call "shamelessly ignoring" the issue... no matter if you like the outcome or not. You seem to discount the fact that 1 out of 4 meetings (every other competition) is presently held in the west. Only counting the off years and not acknowledging communication sounds like political presentation of statistics and recent events (attention to the issue). This organization is volunteer based, and thrives on involvement from the members. You were kind enough to provide some possible host shop names, but those shops have to have an interest (volunteer) and the ability to host a convention. If you're really passionate about moving this along, I think it would be a whole lot more productive to offer your time to the board in order to consider possible sites, then assist in solving the cost, vendor access, and the transportation issues involved. Overcoming these challenges are key. Low attendance, increased costs (logistics for participants, presenters and vendors) or (the possible resulting) low vendor participation on (marginal income vs. expense) off years means we'd all be paying a good deal more in dues. Jeffrey, I'm not asking to be liked. I'm deliberately rebuking whoever the current management of the VSA is for not making an effort to make the VSA more of a national organization. If they want volunteers to move that along, I'm happy to volunteer. I thought that's what I was doing when you presented my proposal to the board a couple of years back, and it got nowhere, not even so much as a "Let's pursue the possibility in the future." You did your part for my concern. I hope I thanked you for it. The board's response was one of no interest. I know there's some westerners on the board now. Maybe the constituency of the board needs to change even more before the VSA becomes truly a national organization. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James M. Jones Posted May 19, 2011 Report Share Posted May 19, 2011 I believe they had an auction like this at the last convention. Although I think the money might have gone to scholarships. Oh cool. It's hard enough these day to pull a confrence off, every thing helps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeffrey Holmes Posted May 19, 2011 Report Share Posted May 19, 2011 Jeffery, as far as funding goes, has the VSA ever done any kind of live auction? I ask because the international blacksmiths ABANA confrence always held one and it brought in quite some dollars($26,000-$50,000 I think) to help cover expencess. tools, wood, instruments, ect. it all adds up and was acually a highlight of the confrence....with folks paying top dollar ,for say a worn file from Mr. Burgess or A set of custom fittings by Meyer ......even I have something ,an extra,corner block gouge.It also serves as good advertizing for the donners,as studies show that people are more likley to buy from providers who give to there community,when givven the choice. I know some might feel it tackey but considering the recent lady Blunt auction it could be a fit. It also is a way of relieving some of the east coast west coast tension, that is the more fiscaly independant the confrence is from other VSA services the less likley it is to loose memberships. Yes. The VSA holds an auction during every competition... It's well attended, vendors and members are generous with contributions, and sales are brisk (I think David has a picture on his phone with me holding, of all things, a bass fingerboard I bought in Cleveland), but the proceeds go to the scholarship endowment, not the general fund. Honestly, I don't think, considering the pop. density, that things are that out of balance. Skiing wants an off year meeting in the west, and that would be great if it works out... but as I mentioned, every other competition is in the west already. For the record, there are board members from the west, and have been board members from the west. Skiing mentioned he was "deliberately rebuking whoever the current management of the VSA is for not making an effort to make the VSA more of a national organization." More politics? I belong to a national organization that has it's base in NY (that costs a hell of a lot more per year in dues), and holds it's conventions there. Does that make them less national? I don't believe so. They communicate well with the membership, no matter where they are. While I was open to the desires of the membership concerning venue location when I was on the board (and have no objection to venue location now), even when it was more or less a solo voice, I think it's also important to realize the up and down sides of location and cost pertaining to these venues for off-year conventions. I'm done with this one... I like being a retired board member. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Noon Posted May 19, 2011 Report Share Posted May 19, 2011 I heard that the vast majority of makers are located in the Northeast. If so, that may explain the selection. You'd think that all those successful makers and restorers, with their vast accumulated wealth from their lucrative occupation, would jump at the chance to leave the cold and snow for the balmy Southern California beaches. I'll proabably go to the competitions wherever they are; off-year meetings no... unless they're within driving distance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Noykos Posted May 19, 2011 Report Share Posted May 19, 2011 You'd think that all those successful makers and restorers, with their vast accumulated wealth from their lucrative occupation, would jump at the chance to leave the cold and snow for the balmy Southern California beaches. I'll proabably go to the competitions wherever they are; off-year meetings no... unless they're within driving distance. You should help organize a Southern California location. I would love a tax deductible reason to go there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flyboy Posted May 19, 2011 Report Share Posted May 19, 2011 I don't do this stuff any more, but just so site selection criteria is understood a bit better: A hotel offers a special rate for conventions, but the expected number of hotel rooms occupied (sold) within the venue still goes to offsetting the cost of the public spaces (for lectures, vendors, banquets, exhibitions). Room rates in Manhattan chasing attendees to Long Island, even with good convention attendance, could unfortunately end up increasing costs of the convention... as would low attendance if the convention was held in a really unappealing location, a poor venue, or a difficult place to travel to. In other words, it's a balancing act. Personally, I'd love St. John for a venue when it's cold here in the mid-west... but no... maybe I'd have more fun simply vacationing there and leaving the violin geek stuff for elsewhere. Jeffrey, My only point earlier regarding hotel rates in NYC (in Manhattan, particularly) is that it's probably too cost prohibitive for mere mortals, never mind makers who are just starting out. I know you're no longer on the board of VSA, but if the VSA were to hold a convention near NYC, even Hoboken NJ (as a random example, with far more reasonable accommodation/convention rates than Manhattan) would be preferable to Cleveland. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeffrey Holmes Posted May 20, 2011 Report Share Posted May 20, 2011 Jeffrey, My only point earlier regarding hotel rates in NYC (in Manhattan, particularly) is that it's probably too cost prohibitive for mere mortals, never mind makers who are just starting out. I know you're no longer on the board of VSA, but if the VSA were to hold a convention near NYC, even Hoboken NJ (as a random example, with far more reasonable accommodation/convention rates than Manhattan) would be preferable to Cleveland. Ummm... I'd say something, but I'm sure I'd get myself in trouble in at least one town or the other! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LinkMan Posted May 20, 2011 Report Share Posted May 20, 2011 The Center Of America's Population Moves West Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JPherson Posted May 20, 2011 Report Share Posted May 20, 2011 The Center Of America's Population Moves West By that map then St. Louis MO is the logical choice. Neither East nor West Jesse Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael_Molnar Posted May 20, 2011 Report Share Posted May 20, 2011 Old news indeed. As long as the VSA shamelessly chooses to ignore the issue, I'll shamelessly bring it up. Sometimes you've got to embarrass people into doing the right thing. Maybe the VSA should offer a membership discount to us westerners to reflect our "auxiliary" status. 19 to 1, what an unjustified bias! Michael states: "I heard that the vast majority of makers are located in the Northeast. If so, that may explain the selection." That may be true. Seems to me that by holding conventions in other parts of the country, you'd increase membership from those other parts of the country. You can run an organization with growth in mind or you can run it for the comfort and convenience of the people already in it. The VSA is choosing, again and again, to do the latter. Nobody's asking for perfect parity, but 19 to 1 for a supposed national organization? I need some data to form an opinion: How do you know the VSA is ignoring this issue? Which VSA meetings did you attend? How long have you been a VSA member? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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