Needle file sharpening question


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Ha, wait until you've been here as long as I have, and get to see every idea you've ever come up with credited to some later person who's repeating you, and get to see it happen again and again. :-)

WOW!!!! David's right again!...So what am I? ...chopped liver?... I'm happy to Acknowladge practicly all violin related subject matter to such highly respected,skilled and knowladgable persons such as David and Fiddlecollector...ECT (this forum is full of them)... However I have spent 20 plus years .not simply studding metals theory but working on a daily level with it ...I have put myself in a position to study and work with some of the finest smiths the world has ever known. If name dropping is happening, who realy cares who is right?, as long as they are correct? and why am I not not being credited with the same .I don't mean to get in a snit but....FC, usually an acknowlagement of a wrong slam is in order. I am of cource assuming that you have read my responce. CT sorry If this inpindges of the thread. I know you like to stay clear of emotinal heated debate.

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I don't use a heated acid .I don't understand heat concentration and buildup?...I agree a new file will always out perform a sharpened file ...unlike a knife edge, It is more of a rejuvination than a true sharpining. It feels sharper because it is.

Chemical reactions cause heat. It's there whether you put it there or not. On fine, isolated surfaces, it builds very quickly, too. And as I said, Boggs reharpenings are better than new, just as he promises, because he does it correctly. The way he probably does it is on the web somewhere. I'm sure ambitious people can track it down.

The file on the right in my photo acts like 220 grit sandpaper.

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On another front, photographers use Glacial Acetic Acid, which is as pure as you can buy. I have had darkrooms in wood heated spaces, and it does freeze somewhere just below 60F. It's a little freaky to come in to work in the darkroom and find a gallon of acetic acid slurpee. But I don't know about dilute solutions at lower temps.

Photo stores can easily get you 28% and Glacial (99%) if that's what you want to play with. Vinegar hangs around 4%.

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Ha, wait until you've been here as long as I have, and get to see every idea you've ever come up with credited to some later person who's repeating you, and get to see it happen again and again. :-)

OT/sorry CT .. Acually I've been thinking of changing my name to David Bergusse or Jeffary Holmese or... how about Bruse Carson.... or mabe even Michael Dartun. what do you think?

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Chemical reactions cause heat. It's there whether you put it there or not. On fine, isolated surfaces, it builds very quickly, too. And as I said, Boggs reharpenings are better than new, just as he promises, because he does it correctly. The way he probably does it is on the web somewhere. I'm sure ambitious people can track it down.

The file on the right in my photo acts like 220 grit sandpaper.

that makes sence to me ..thanks..

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WOW!!!! David's right again!...So what am I? ...chopped liver?... I'm happy to Acknowladge practicly all violin related subject matter to such highly respected,skilled and knowladgable persons such as David and Fiddlecollector...ECT (this forum is full of them)... However I have spent 20 plus years .not simply studding metals theory but working on a daily level with it ...I have put myself in a position to study and work with some of the finest smiths the world has ever known. If name dropping is happening, who realy cares who is right?, as long as they are correct? and why am I not not being credited with the same .I don't mean to get in a snit but....FC, usually an acknowlagement of a wrong slam is in order. I am of cource assuming that you have read my responce. CT sorry If this inpindges of the thread. I know you like to stay clear of emotinal heated debate.

Here's my acknowledgement to you, Jones. B)

I feel the same way sometimes, and then I realize that I inadvertently do the same thing on occasion, sometimes by directing my comment to the most recent related post, and failing to mention others.

I've had decent results with a commercial "file sharpening" liquid, sufficient that it was hard to tell the functional difference from the same file new, side-by-side. Do you know what kind of acid that might contain?

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I'm vacillating on that. I'm reluctant to ruin another file based on something I read on the internet. :-)

By the way, that particular file was sharpened years ago, using a file sharpening system I bought--Shark CP-17. I looked for it for sale, and it doesn't seem to be around anymore. The directions (I still have the bottle) don't include the missing step in the process, which is probably why it didn't really work. . . . maybe that's why I couldn't find it for sale.

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Here's an old review of the file sharpener I used.

Mike C, it has some before-and-after pictures that might be the kind you're looking for.

LINK

Thanks for the link. Same stuff I had. As anyone who sharpens knives and checks their grinding by looking at the reflection when looking directly at the edge knows, the first photo is going to cut a lot better than the second. Even though the second is cooler looking, the large specular reflection indicates dullness--that fat shiny line indicates a not-knife edge.

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If you're really looking to vacuum all the credit, you've chosen poorly. :-)

NO NO NO Sometime my wife tells me I have a wierd humor ...I was honoring the many folks here who have so much more expertize than I ever hope to have .(I only know that any acid will eat the flats off and leave a sharper edge on a worn file)..By sugesting that I could pawn myself off on ignorant people ....like the Rolux watch I never bought while in NYC .smile .....sorry

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Those are good before and after pics, quite a difference. And wow a trip down memory lane. 1992, 40 megs! and just a few days ago I bought a terabyte drive for backups! and that 92 firebird! I bought a 94 trans am just 2 years after that. Time flies and so did the car!

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Thanks for the link. Same stuff I had. As anyone who sharpens knives and checks their grinding by looking at the reflection when looking directly at the edge knows, the first photo is going to cut a lot better than the second. Even though the second is cooler looking, the large specular reflection indicates dullness--that fat shiny line indicates a not-knife edge.

It's hard to know what's going on in the photos without being able to roll the files in the light (vary the light angle). The files I did that way didn't show any flat surfaces, but there weren't any reflective surfaces at all, so maybe something was done to the photo or the file for viewing enhancement.

The stuff worked pretty well for me, but maybe that's because I failed to use it correctly somehow.

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Jeesh! Sorry I "dissed" so many people. :blink:

That's cool Mike, I maybe woke up on the wrong side of the bed. teenadgers driving me nuts these days ...I have feelings to.... sorry to be such a putz by putting you on the spot. just wanted to be heard....perhaps "they art right" is what I wanted to hear. my ego got in the way...I'm sorry.. nothing personal.

David, Thanks ..and I have no Idea what any propriatory formular are made of I just use HCL Nitric or the strong vinager trick.

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CT sorry If this inpindges of the thread. I know you like to stay clear of emotinal heated debate.

Not at all.

As Michael might say, I really don't have a dog in this fight, and will readily admit full ignorance regarding the particulars involved, I just have a handfull of needle files that I would like to give couple more years to, if possible, rather than just toss them - or make them into some other "make-do" tool.

All of the replies so far have advanced my understanding of the process.

As far as I'm concerned - it's all good. Thanks for adding your two cents...

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Well let me add my 2 cents worth:

Actually, if you do it the way people are suggesting in this thread, here's what happens (new file on left, "sharpened" file on the right).

file-sharpening-not.jpg

The file feels sharper after the acid, but it cuts worse. The reason it gets duller is because heat concentration and buildup on the sharpest and thinnest points, encourages more rapid etching on those spots, dulling the file, turning the small sharp parts into mushy large parts. Larger areas are backed up by a heatsink of the bulk of the file, and will always be cooler, so they erode more slowly. There's a trick to getting it to work right (the first time I sent files to http://www.boggstool.com/ , he warned me that a lot of people thought they knew how to do it, but they didn't--that there was a secret to it--and he was right.)

Boggs does a great job. It costs a fraction of the cost of a new file. He promised me they'd be sharper than when new, and he was right.

And just remember you heard it here first!!! ;)

:unsure: :unsure: :unsure: :unsure: :unsure: :unsure: :unsure:

:rolleyes:

:lol:

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Yes I see your point:

Ha, wait until you've been here as long as I have, and get to see every idea you've ever come up with credited to some later person who's repeating you, and get to see it happen again and again. :-)

WOW!!!! David's right again!...So what am I? ...chopped liver?... I'm happy to Acknowladge practicly all violin related subject matter to such highly respected,skilled and knowladgable persons such as David and Fiddlecollector...ECT (this forum is full of them)... However I have spent 20 plus years .not simply studding metals theory but working on a daily level with it ...I have put myself in a position to study and work with some of the finest smiths the world has ever known. If name dropping is happening, who realy cares who is right?, as long as they are correct? and why am I not not being credited with the same .I don't mean to get in a snit but....FC, usually an acknowlagement of a wrong slam is in order. I am of cource assuming that you have read my responce. CT sorry If this inpindges of the thread. I know you like to stay clear of emotinal heated debate.

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Ok,

Here's the straight dope.

I switched the vinegar once, an hour or two in, when it had become "muddy".

Then after about eight hours, I took them out and rinsed them with very hot tap water, and dried them quickly so they wouldn't rust.

The results is that they are much cleaner but not fully clean of impacted wood - ebony and plastic, etc.

They do already seem to work better, but I have a feeling that an overnight soak wouldn't hurt, so back in they go.

My gut feeling at this point is that, as many people have recommended, a slightly more powerful acid solution would work better.

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CT, I think they're suppose to be super clean to begin with in order for the acid to etch evenly.

Yeah, I probably biffed it on that point, another member already warned me to make sure they were clean before I started...

In my own defense, I DID just (almost) recover from an acute bout of laziness, complicated by a genetic predisposition towards "wanting to get it done now" syndrome.

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